Ozone help

[Murica]

I'm going to be adding ozone to my basement sump/refugium. What's the easiest way to run ozone? I've never used it before and I'm a little clueless. I hear a lot of people tap it into their skimmer.

Any other info would be appreciated. The only negative things I hear is it can create bad air quality... Which it'll be in the basement so I'm not too worried about that, and it can be hard on plastics. I hear a bunch of positive things, however.

 

[Cory]

The best way to run ozone is with an orp controller and run the ozone through an ozone reactor. Running it through a skimmer is the easiest way but will crack your skimmer later on.

Check out randy holmes farleys articles about ozone on google search.

 

[rockskimmerflow]

My best advice is less is more. Personally UV is my preference to ozone for most potential applications of a tech that damages/breaks down organic structures and bacteria.

That said, I do run ozone full time on my personal 430 gal growout tank array. It is a 25mg generator running through a skimmer's ozone intake and set to about 20 percent of its capacity. Given the room's humidity and the fact that I dont use an air dryer on the generators intake, I'm probably injecting less than 2mg per hour into a 430 gal system. About 5mg/hr is as high as Im comfortable going on my system realistically, having seen the serious damage ozone can do in various ways when overused. I only use it on this system as I feed a massive amount and it is helpful in augmenting activated carbon in removing yellowing compounds in the water. Tin poisoning is a very real threat if ozone is run in a way that allows it to contact PVC.

FWIW, of my 40+ client reef tanks in the field, exactly 0 run ozone. Many run large UVs but I've never found ozone preferable to activated carbon for doing anything the UV can't help with.

 

[Paul B]

Run it into the air intake of your skimmer. My skimmer has had ozone in it for at least 30 years with no problems. (Thats the same skimmer) I run the generator full force with no carbon, no problems. My air quality in my basement is great and I never smell ozone. My corals are doing great and all my paired fish are spawning and only die from old age. Almost all of what you hear about how dangerous ozone is wrong and comes from people who don't use it.
It just makes your water healthier but don't put the tube up your nose, instant headache.

 

[Breadman03]

I'm running an AquaUV 80 watt setup with the ozone kit. I have the ozone line teed into my Lifereef skimmer with the other line recirculating the air from my skimmer cup into the Venturi.

 

[Murica]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone

 

[Cory]

Id also suggest using the reccomend minimum ozone for your tank size and set it to the minimum. For my 250 gallons 50mg/h is all i need.

 

[rockskimmerflow]

Run it into the air intake of your skimmer. My skimmer has had ozone in it for at least 30 years with no problems. (Thats the same skimmer) I run the generator full force with no carbon, no problems. My air quality in my basement is great and I never smell ozone. My corals are doing great and all my paired fish are spawning and only die from old age. Almost all of what you hear about how dangerous ozone is wrong and comes from people who don't use it.
It just makes your water healthier but don't put the tube up your nose, instant headache.

I'm glad it works for you and more power to you, but ozone can be very dangerous to livestock and I have encountered many situations in which simply removing the ozone fixed issues with corals blistering from tin poisoning as well as fish dying in a severe case where a reefer was using a 100mg generator full blast on a 120 gal system. Seen the damage firsthand in too many cases to dismiss it's potential dangers so flippantly as you do. I'd counter with almost all of what you hear about the dangers of ozone being overblown are from people who have used it and have had personal success in their specific situation. Your success does not apply universally unfortunately. Happy reefing

 

[Paul B]

That is true, but in my situation it has been great. My last ozonizer was a 200 MG/hr unit and I always ran it full force with no carbon in my 100 gallon tank but I ran the outflow of the skimmer over a 5' long trough above the tank that seemed to disapate any residual ozone. Now I only have a 50/mg generator that I run full force with no trough or carbon in my 125 gallon tank. In the 35 or so years I have used Ozone, I never had a problem. I think if your skimmer is large enough there is no problem. Ozone is very easy to tell if you are using to much because it has a very strong smell and you will get an instant headache. You will smell if there is to much ozone as soon as you enter the room where it is used. I feel that if you don't smell it, it is fine. I don't like to use carbon in my tank and I don't think it is necessary with ozone. I have never personally witnessed ozone killing anything but you have to have some common sense. I am very old school and probably used ozone longer than anyone here but as you said, you have seen problems with it so maybe my method is flawed. I don't know. But have a great day.

I am interested in what you said about ozone having issues when contacting PVC. My 5' skimmer is a DIY and it is made out of PVC. The outflow of the skimmer also flows over a 5' PVC trough. I never noticed any problems.

 

[rockskimmerflow]

That is true, but in my situation it has been great. My last ozonizer was a 200 MG/hr unit and I always ran it full force with no carbon in my 100 gallon tank but I ran the outflow of the skimmer over a 5' long trough above the tank that seemed to disapate any residual ozone. Now I only have a 50/mg generator that I run full force with no trough or carbon in my 125 gallon tank. In the 35 or so years I have used Ozone, I never had a problem. I think if your skimmer is large enough there is no problem. Ozone is very easy to tell if you are using to much because it has a very strong smell and you will get an instant headache. You will smell if there is to much ozone as soon as you enter the room where it is used. I feel that if you don't smell it, it is fine. I don't like to use carbon in my tank and I don't think it is necessary with ozone. I have never personally witnessed ozone killing anything but you have to have some common sense. I am very old school and probably used ozone longer than anyone here but as you said, you have seen problems with it so maybe my method is flawed. I don't know. But have a great day.

I am interested in what you said about ozone having issues when contacting PVC. My 5' skimmer is a DIY and it is made out of PVC. The outflow of the skimmer also flows over a 5' PVC trough. I never noticed any problems.

Your case is an interesting one- likely very atypical to most modern reefers given your methodology. And yes, if you can smell ozone there's probably more than necessary going in since a detectable amount is being gassed off before reacting with organics in the water. The contact time in your skimmer probably smokes most of what people with similar sized tank volumes are running. Maybe not in terms of air induction, but certainly raw time of water passage given it's extreme dimensions relative to skimmers that fit under an average tank stand. Also, how old is that PVC in your skimmer??? I don't have exact data on when tin-based heat stabilizers were added to PVC manufacturing, but I'd wager your 30yr old skimmer might just be out of range haha. And in any event, has almost certainly leached out all the available tin in the immediate surfaces of the pipe with so many years of water and ozone exposure. I can assure you tin leaching has been an issue with modern, fresh PVC in many cases and seems to be exacerbated by ozone exposure. I had it for a time in a personal tank years ago before ICP testing when I was reacting a small amount ~10mg/hr ozone through a PVC pipe chamber. Within a couple months Acros and chalice started showing odd blistering bubbles under the tissue out of nowhere. Only change that was made was the ozone and once removed the issue was resolved. I later found out from others who'd traced this symptom through testing that this was a tin poisoning issue brought on by PVC leaching. I just hope those new to the ozone game don't overdo it as I've never seen a tank not grow coral or have healthy fish for lack of having ozone, but have certainly seen the reverse. I think it's pretty safe stuff if used with caution and planning but as we all know it's easy to get excited about new gear and overdo stuff in this hobby so I want to impress that there are potential pitfalls on any new ozone users.

Now, I don't want you to do this if you feel the ozone is integral to your tank's system, but I wonder how comfortable you would be with shutting it down for say like 2 or 3 months. And during that time maybe add a fish or two to the system. Perhaps one that had been exposed to marine velvet. That would really put a test to the immunity through husbandry theory by removing the factor of the strong sterilization effect your liberal use of ozone in a large skimmer undoubtedly has on the system. The ozone may have zero impact on your fishes disease resistance, or it may be the whole story right there... I honestly have no idea, but am super curious now that I am aware of the way in which you implement ozone. It would be a very interesting topic of study for sure. And don't get me wrong, owning a service business I have to operate on the principle of disease resistance through husbandry on tanks that I did not have the liberty of stocking initially with fully QT fish and the client was unwilling to go through a fallow period on. Big UV and ample feeding with efficient filtration has always been my best avenue to success in those disease compromised tanks. I sell only fully QT'd livestock, but have to work within the realities of my clients' imperfect tanks. Currently have no known disease issues in the field so both methods work to my mind. Just curious if you believe your ozone is integral or just a cherry on top of the husbandry aspect. Cheers.

 

[Mortie31]

Your case is an interesting one- likely very atypical to most modern reefers given your methodology. And yes, if you can smell ozone there's probably more than necessary going in since a detectable amount is being gassed off before reacting with organics in the water. The contact time in your skimmer probably smokes most of what people with similar sized tank volumes are running. Maybe not in terms of air induction, but certainly raw time of water passage given it's extreme dimensions relative to skimmers that fit under an average tank stand. Also, how old is that PVC in your skimmer??? I don't have exact data on when tin-based heat stabilizers were added to PVC manufacturing, but I'd wager your 30yr old skimmer might just be out of range haha. And in any event, has almost certainly leached out all the available tin in the immediate surfaces of the pipe with so many years of water and ozone exposure. I can assure you tin leaching has been an issue with modern, fresh PVC in many cases and seems to be exacerbated by ozone exposure. I had it for a time in a personal tank years ago before ICP testing when I was reacting a small amount ~10mg/hr ozone through a PVC pipe chamber. Within a couple months Acros and chalice started showing odd blistering bubbles under the tissue out of nowhere. Only change that was made was the ozone and once removed the issue was resolved. I later found out from others who'd traced this symptom through testing that this was a tin poisoning issue brought on by PVC leaching. I just hope those new to the ozone game don't overdo it as I've never seen a tank not grow coral or have healthy fish for lack of having ozone, but have certainly seen the reverse. I think it's pretty safe stuff if used with caution and planning but as we all know it's easy to get excited about new gear and overdo stuff in this hobby so I want to impress that there are potential pitfalls on any new ozone users.

Now, I don't want you to do this if you feel the ozone is integral to your tank's system, but I wonder how comfortable you would be with shutting it down for say like 2 or 3 months. And during that time maybe add a fish or two to the system. Perhaps one that had been exposed to marine velvet. That would really put a test to the immunity through husbandry theory by removing the factor of the strong sterilization effect your liberal use of ozone in a large skimmer undoubtedly has on the system. The ozone may have zero impact on your fishes disease resistance, or it may be the whole story right there... I honestly have no idea, but am super curious now that I am aware of the way in which you implement ozone. It would be a very interesting topic of study for sure. And don't get me wrong, owning a service business I have to operate on the principle of disease resistance through husbandry on tanks that I did not have the liberty of stocking initially with fully QT fish and the client was unwilling to go through a fallow period on. Big UV and ample feeding with efficient filtration has always been my best avenue to success in those disease compromised tanks. I sell only fully QT'd livestock, but have to work within the realities of my clients' imperfect tanks. Currently have no known disease issues in the field so both methods work to my mind. Just curious if you believe your ozone is integral or just a cherry on top of the husbandry aspect. Cheers.

There have been numerous reports of tin in ICPs that has been attributed to leeching from new pipework, with or without ozone, so not sure if that’s a strong argument , but I do appreciate your warnings to everyone.

 

[rockskimmerflow]

There have been numerous reports of tin in ICPs that has been attributed to leeching from new pipework, with or without ozone, so not sure if that’s a strong argument , but I do appreciate your warnings to everyone.

Yeah well aware. That's why I mentioned it since Paul B seemed to have not heard much about PVC and it's tin connection. But having had ozone cause this issue before the advent of widespread ICP and having spoken with industry people who have seen ozone excelerate tin leachate from PVC I feel pretty confident making that disclaimer. It wasn't an argument against ozone, just an anecdote, as are the reports of ICP tin readings and their correlation to fresh PVC. And since not every new hard-plumbed build has a tin issue, I'm not sure that's a strong 'argument' either. Again, not at all advocating against ozone.... just be careful and don't react it in a PVC pipe like my foolish self did back in the day. A purpose built acrylic reactor or ozone safe skimmer is a much better choice haha.

 

[Mortie31]

Yeah well aware. That's why I mentioned it since Paul B seemed to have not heard much about PVC and it's tin connection. But having had ozone cause this issue before the advent of widespread ICP and having spoken with industry people who have seen ozone excelerate tin leachate from PVC I feel pretty confident making that disclaimer. It wasn't an argument against ozone, just an anecdote, as are the reports of ICP tin readings and their correlation to fresh PVC. And since not every new hard-plumbed build has a tin issue, I'm not sure that's a strong 'argument' either. Again, not at all advocating against ozone.... just be careful and don't react it in a PVC pipe like my foolish self did back in the day. A purpose built acrylic reactor or ozone safe skimmer is a much better choice haha.

100% agree with you about ozone safe skimmers/ acrylic, the key thing is we actually don’t know how much tin does leech from plastic and maybe float glass as well, as the manufacturers won’t admit it and still only a tiny percentage of reefers use ICP’s, so potentially it is causing lots of issues we are unaware of and it could be that you would have had the Tin leeching anyway and the ozone merely speeded it up, but again without measuring we’re not sure and surely with how widespread ozone is used we would regularly hear about corals dying and elevated tin levels, but we don’t... but then again ICP testing isn’t widespread enough yet....lol it’s a chicken and egg situation

 

[Paul B]

Rockskimmerflo. First of all I want to thank you for pointing out to me that my initial answer will not work for everyone. I am old, probably senile, have PTSD, and have been doing this for too long so some of my answers may not come off as well as I would like them to come off and I have been rightly accused of this occasionally. It's a fault in the way I am wired.
I also want to thank you for the long reply as most replies are like "Duh" or "OMG".

The PVC in my skimmer may be 30 years old but the trough above the water is only 10 years old. When I moved here to this new home I transferred everything in my old tank to a new tank here in a few hours. I didn't use ozone for maybe 4 or 5 months because the generator broke before I moved and I didn't get one here until recently. In that time I added many new fish and corals because this tank is larger and needed more livestock. (2 pipefish, spotted wrasse, anthius and a few others)
I don't need ozone, I just always had it since the stuff was first used in tanks and I like the idea. I am not even sure if it does anything and this generator I use now is only a third as powerful as the one I used for those decades.
If this one breaks, I may not replace it. It probably helps the inside of the skimmer stay clean but when I took the system down to move, I spent quite a while chopping worm tubes out of the body of the skimmer so I assume ozone does not affect them or maybe it accelerates their growth.

Last week I added a tiny yellow clown gobi. A few of days ago he got covered in parasites, probably ich. The spots fell off a couple of days ago to reproduce and the fish now has spots again. Nothing else is infected. I see this as a good sign because I want an inflow of parasites.
Of course this is my methodology and very few other people do this or feel this way. I also know it sounds weird but my fish never get sick except for maybe pop eye which is more of a mechanical thing and it is rare.

I think my method is very easy and cheap as no quarantine, hospital tanks or medications are ever needed but it can't be used in a store where new fish are constantly added as that is not a stable condition. It also will not work in a new tank where bacterial, viral and parasitic populations are also not stable.

Over the years many people have argued that it is the ozone in my tank that is the reason for the apparent immunity and I always tell them that if they think that is it, then why not use ozone.
I know it has nothing to do with it and it is the natural influx of parasites and diseases just like in the sea that keeps my fish immune.

 

[rockskimmerflow]

Rockskimmerflo. First of all I want to thank you for pointing out to me that my initial answer will not work for everyone. I am old, probably senile, have PTSD, and have been doing this for too long so some of my answers may not come off as well as I would like them to come off and I have been rightly accused of this occasionally. It's a fault in the way I am wired.
I also want to thank you for the long reply as most replies are like "Duh" or "OMG".

The PVC in my skimmer may be 30 years old but the trough above the water is only 10 years old. When I moved here to this new home I transferred everything in my old tank to a new tank here in a few hours. I didn't use ozone for maybe 4 or 5 months because the generator broke before I moved and I didn't get one here until recently. In that time I added many new fish and corals because this tank is larger and needed more livestock. (2 pipefish, spotted wrasse, anthius and a few others)
I don't need ozone, I just always had it since the stuff was first used in tanks and I like the idea. I am not even sure if it does anything and this generator I use now is only a third as powerful as the one I used for those decades.
If this one breaks, I may not replace it. It probably helps the inside of the skimmer stay clean but when I took the system down to move, I spent quite a while chopping worm tubes out of the body of the skimmer so I assume ozone does not affect them or maybe it accelerates their growth.

Last week I added a tiny yellow clown gobi. A few of days ago he got covered in parasites, probably ich. The spots fell off a couple of days ago to reproduce and the fish now has spots again. Nothing else is infected. I see this as a good sign because I want an inflow of parasites.
Of course this is my methodology and very few other people do this or feel this way. I also know it sounds weird but my fish never get sick except for maybe pop eye which is more of a mechanical thing and it is rare.

I think my method is very easy and cheap as no quarantine, hospital tanks or medications are ever needed but it can't be used in a store where new fish are constantly added as that is not a stable condition. It also will not work in a new tank where bacterial, viral and parasitic populations are also not stable.

Over the years many people have argued that it is the ozone in my tank that is the reason for the apparent immunity and I always tell them that if they think that is it, then why not use ozone.
I know it has nothing to do with it and it is the natural influx of parasites and diseases just like in the sea that keeps my fish immune.

Very cool! Glad to hear there was a span with no ozone running on the tank while fish were added. That definitely answers my curiousity about whether it inhibited disease. I personally have never viewed ozone as anywhere close to a large UV in terms of efficacy at waterborne parasite bloom inhibition. This further reinforces that for me since you had a 200mg unit running full blast and it evidently was not responsible for your success in combating disease.

If I didn't do this for a living and just had 1 or 2 tanks with stable livestock groups, I'd probably gravitate to the more holistic approach simply cause I hate putting all my incoming fish through the harshness of QT medications. For the moment its the only feasible way given I need to move so many disease free fish per month to keep up with the demand of my small to moderate service client base. Thankfully my losses are near zero on quarantined fish that are sold, save for occasional jumpers or those that fall to rogue aggressors upon introduction to a tank.

 

[Paul B]

If I had to move fish around in a business I would also have to quarantine. Unfortunately, in a stable tank in a home, I feel quarantining is a very bad practice as it destroys a fishes immunity making them always prone to disease which is not normal or healthy for long term care. I would rather, for my fish and my family, enhance my immunity so I don't get sick like we were designed to do. WE can of course live in a bubble, never ride a subway or bus, don't go to restaurants or have company over, especially when they have sick kids but that doesn't work for us or my fish.

When I was in Viet Nam we didn't have wash water, hardly washed our hands, ate a lot of dirt and slept in the mud, was never under a roof and I woke up most days with rat footprints on me, I even got bit by one . I never even got a sniffle. That's the way people and fish were designed to live, diseases and all.

 

[Cory]

Good thread guys

Paul i like your tank i think its different and thought provoking. I used ozone on my skinmer and only 3 months later it developed crazing in the acrylic. Its an older skimmer i bought used so no idea on the age of it. Also the nipple on the silencer was crushed easily from degradation of ozone. So plastics and ozone dont mix ine. Its odd that your pvc skimmer hasnt suffered degradation and became brittle.

 

[Paul B]

I am surprised acrylic degraded as most skimmers are made out of the stuff. Mine has about a foot of it. My PVC on my skimmer seems as good as the day I built it and I don't even remember when that was. I was probably a young man then.

 

[Cory]

Here is a link to ozone compatibility

http://www.ozoneapplications.com/info/ozone_compatible_materials.htm