Pain in my Wrasse!

[Jim C]

Why is it that every wrasse I order online lately dies in my qt of swim bladder issues? I have tried treating with copper, without copper, but it happens either way. Within the past two months I have lost a mccoskers, orangeback, about to lose another orangeback, and my exquisite died tonight. I had it for 6 months before I put all fish in qt to treat for a bacterial infection. With the exception of the exquisite, they all are unable to swim properly right out of the bag. Then they lay on their side, unable to swim, until they die. What is going on?

 

[Pugfishluv3]

Wrasse's are not well tolerate of copper. You might want to try ttm or just watch them for the first few days. What kind of copper are you using ie chelated, iconic?

 

[4FordFamily]

Wrasse do OK if copper is increased very slowly. Right now I have a qt housing 8 wrasse they're all doing great but it will be Tuesday (two weeks) for me to get to the full therapeutic dose.

I am not sure that's your issue but that sounds like a bit of a coincidence-- do you have an ammonia badge on your tank to indicate ammonia? (By seachem)

 

[Jim C]

For the 3 most recent deaths there has been no copper present. I have used cupramine in the past though. Ammonia alert is bright yellow.

 

[4FordFamily]

For the 3 most recent deaths there has been no copper present. I have used cupramine in the past though. Ammonia alert is bright yellow.

Any other meds you've used?

Also, where are you sourcing your fish?

@eatbreakfast @evolved

 

[Jim C]

Any other meds you've used?

Also, where are you sourcing your fish?

@eatbreakfast @evolved

Just furan 2 and prazipro, but not anytime close together. The larger fairies were from saltwaterfish.com. The mccoskers was divers den. I have a flame wrasse and longfin fairy that are doing great in qt as well.

 

[melypr1985]

So you had a bacterial infection and all fish went into the tank to be treated for that and subsequently they all died of what looked like a bladder issue? It sounds more like there is still an infection spreading through the fish.

 

[4FordFamily]

Just furan 2 and prazipro, but not anytime close together. The larger fairies were from saltwaterfish.com. The mccoskers was divers den. I have a flame wrasse and longfin fairy that are doing great in qt as well.

This is completely anecdotal but it seems like larger fairy wrasse have these issues more frequently than smaller ones.

Also I just thought of something -- do you have a lid on this tank I assume for wrasse?

If it's not a softer mesh or something "soft" (ie wire mesh, plexi, glass, etc) then I bet it's spine damage. Wrasse are very flighty especially for the first few months. My fairies would startle when I came down the stairs (they were at the bottom of the stairs in my basement) and leap out and hit the plexiglas lids hard and this caused two of them to die in my case. They behave much like wrasse with swimbladder issues.

 

[melypr1985]

This is completely anecdotal but it seems like larger fairy wrasse have these issues more frequently than smaller ones.

Also I just thought of something -- do you have a lid on this tank I assume for wrasse?

If it's not a softer mesh or something "soft" (ie wire mesh, plexi, glass, etc) then I bet it's spine damage. Wrasse are very flighty especially for the first few months. My fairies would startle when I came down the stairs (they were at the bottom of the stairs in my basement) and leap out and hit the plexiglas lids hard and this caused two of them to die in my case. They behave much like wrasse with swimbladder issues.

Good point.

 

[stevo01]

1 tablespoon of Epsom salts per 5 gallons and feed peas.

 

[Jim C]

So you had a bacterial infection and all fish went into the tank to be treated for that and subsequently they all died of what looked like a bladder issue? It sounds more like there is still an infection spreading through the fish.

For the longest time my dt was parasite free and so that's where most of my fish were. I kept trying to add more wrasses, but they all died of this same issue. When my dt got infected from a coral, I put all existing fish in qt. This was about two weeks ago. Exquite died tonight , but all other fish, including two other wrasses, look fine.

 

[Jim C]

This is completely anecdotal but it seems like larger fairy wrasse have these issues more frequently than smaller ones.

Also I just thought of something -- do you have a lid on this tank I assume for wrasse?

If it's not a softer mesh or something "soft" (ie wire mesh, plexi, glass, etc) then I bet it's spine damage. Wrasse are very flighty especially for the first few months. My fairies would startle when I came down the stairs (they were at the bottom of the stairs in my basement) and leap out and hit the plexiglas lids hard and this caused two of them to die in my case. They behave much like wrasse with swimbladder issues.

Yeah it does seem like the larger wrasses are the ones that give me more trouble. I have two smaller ones in there right now doing fine. But it's just weird how no matter who I order through they can't really swim, right out of the bag.

 

[4FordFamily]

Yeah it does seem like the larger wrasses are the ones that give me more trouble. I have two smaller ones in there right now doing fine. But it's just weird how no matter who I order through they can't really swim, right out of the bag.

Right out of the bag may be spinal injury from the supplier - they often have plexi lids covering those tanks as well.

If they swim like their tail had an anvil on it and they struggle to right themselves sometimes it's probably the spinal injuries.

Otherwise, it may well be improper "decompression" of fish taken from deeper waters, causing swim bladder issues.

I could also be off base but this is common with wrasse.

 

[Jim C]

Right out of the bag may be spinal injury from the supplier - they often have plexi lids covering those tanks as well.

If they swim like their tail had an anvil on it and they struggle to right themselves sometimes it's probably the spinal injuries.

Otherwise, it may well be improper "decompression" of fish taken from deeper waters, causing swim bladder issues.

I could also be off base but this is common with wrasse.

I guess I'm glad to hear it's common. Most of the time it is right out of the bag, but the exquisite confuses me. I had him for awhile, and he just started hiding a few days ago. Then today he was laying on his side, followed by spurts of absolutely spastic swimming. Then he died. And his body is curved.

 

[eatbreakfast]

I guess I'm glad to hear it's common. Most of the time it is right out of the bag, but the exquisite confuses me. I had him for awhile, and he just started hiding a few days ago. Then today he was laying on his side, followed by spurts of absolutely spastic swimming. Then he died. And his body is curved.

The exquisite does not sound like a swim bladder infection.

You mention the fish having trouble swimming. Please describe as best as possible their swimming behavior. Was there a lot of lying down? Was it head pointed up or down? Tail pointed up or down? Is it darting quickly? Swimming in circles or doing barrel rolls? Twitching?

 

[stevo01]

Infections, parasites, and injuries. Theres is a lot to look at and a lot of Q&A involved to the solution. A lot of bouncing around maybe there is connections, maybe not.

I would be most focused on fish currently in the QT, getting them healthy and back into the DT before adding any more new fish to the QT. The answer may appear by slowing down and focusing.

 

[evolved]

You mention the fish having trouble swimming. Please describe as best as possible their swimming behavior. Was there a lot of lying down? Was it head pointed up or down? Tail pointed up or down? Is it darting quickly? Swimming in circles or doing barrel rolls? Twitching?

I have the same question(s).

My thought is you might be misdiagnosing these fish; it sounds like something else is at play here.

A true swim bladder issue is exhibited by the head pointing down, and the tail pointing up (similar to an imaginary buoy being tied to the tail), with seemingly the inability to control the depth the fish would like to be at.
Any other issues with swimming, or a lack there of, is something else.

 

[Oberst Oswald]

I treated my tank with PraziPro for a fluke infection on one fish I could not catch. He is now doing fine but one of my wrasse, who was not infected, is displaying the same behavior as yours and is slowly dying. I am almost positive the PraziPro did this. If you search around the forums you will find that wrasse's and PraziPro don't mix.

 

[eatbreakfast]

I treated my tank with PraziPro for a fluke infection on one fish I could not catch. He is now doing fine but one of my wrasse, who was not infected, is displaying the same behavior as yours and is slowly dying. I am almost positive the PraziPro did this. If you search around the forums you will find that wrasse's and PraziPro don't mix.

The only times I have seen problems with wrasses and Prazi is if the infestation was so bad that the flukes falling off left extensive damage. Prazi is generally considered pretty gentle and is recommended in almost every wrasse qt protocol.

 

[melypr1985]

The only times I have seen problems with wrasses and Prazi is if the infestation was so bad that the flukes falling off left extensive damage. Prazi is generally considered pretty gentle and is recommended in almost every wrasse qt protocol.

+1 but this could happen to any fish who has a large infestation of flukes on them. The problem is that prazi causes the flukes to seize and die. Having a large number of them do this on the fish can cause trauma to the fish. A freshwater dip, before dosing prazi, is recommended for those fish that are heavily infested. I have never ran across a wrasse that was sensitive to prazi and I dose it in the fish system at work every monday.