Paly toxin

[Rmckoy]

Question regarding paly toxin

do all paly , zoas have the ability to produce this toxin ? Or is it as rare as what I originally thought ?

what’s the chance we all have palytoxin in our tanks but just need to be exposed to it to confirm it can produce such toxins ?

 

[Spare time]

Palytoxin Found in Palythoa sp. Zoanthids (Anthozoa, Hexacorallia) Sold in the Home Aquarium Trade

Zoanthids (Anthozoa, Hexacorallia) are colonial anemones that contain one of the deadliest toxins ever discovered, palytoxin (LD50 in mice 300 ng/kg), but it is generally believed that highly toxic species are not sold in the home aquarium trade. We previously showed that an unintentionally...

journals.plos.org

It seems to vary

 

[CoralScape123]

Question regarding paly toxin

do all paly , zoas have the ability to produce this toxin ? Or is it as rare as what I originally thought ?

what’s the chance we all have palytoxin in our tanks but just need to be exposed to it to confirm it can produce such toxins ?

Send me some of your zoa frags. I'll eat them one by one to test them out. ;Wacky

 

[Gtinnel]

I've always heard the generally brightly colored zoa/palys don't produce palytoxin, but I have absolutely nothing to back that claim up with. It's probably best just to treat all of them as having palytoxin, although admittedly I'm not as careful as I probably should be.

 

[CoralScape123]

Palytoxin Found in Palythoa sp. Zoanthids (Anthozoa, Hexacorallia) Sold in the Home Aquarium Trade

Zoanthids (Anthozoa, Hexacorallia) are colonial anemones that contain one of the deadliest toxins ever discovered, palytoxin (LD50 in mice 300 ng/kg), but it is generally believed that highly toxic species are not sold in the home aquarium trade. We previously showed that an unintentionally...

journals.plos.org

It seems to vary

TLDR "During this investigation, we found that many of the zoanthids commonly sold in the home aquarium trade are non-toxic or weakly-toxic, but a highly toxic variety of Palythoa (possibly P. heliodiscus or P. toxica) is indeed available. It often occurs as a tank contaminant and can be unintentionally introduced with more desirable species or on live rock."

The case that started it all was someone boiling a live rock to kill some ugly hitchhiker zoas. The fumes got to him.

 

[jwilliams860]

I've got some captain jerk palys, trying to clean my tank of them... They get me everytime, metallic taste, sometimes a headache. Only ones ive had in my tank that have given me issues

 

[Spare time]

TLDR "During this investigation, we found that many of the zoanthids commonly sold in the home aquarium trade are non-toxic or weakly-toxic, but a highly toxic variety of Palythoa (possibly P. heliodiscus or P. toxica) is indeed available. It often occurs as a tank contaminant and can be unintentionally introduced with more desirable species or on live rock."

The case that started it all was someone boiling a live rock to kill some ugly hitchhiker zoas. The fumes got to him.

They mention he was cleaning coral off with hot tap water, not boiling rock.

But regardless, that doesn't really have anything to do with the content of the article nor the OP's question. The article discusses that the level of toxicity betweren samples can vary dramatically from no toxin, to weak toxin, to strong toxin.

 

[arking_mark]

I believe palytoxin is very rare and limited to palyothoas. See article...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://reefs.com/2015/09/14/the-dangers-and-myths-of-zoa-toxicity-part-1/&ved=2ahUKEwjGrZXd7p_vAhXfFlkFHe9LBdUQFjAAegQIARAC&usg=AOvVaw1z1EtjpoZ7Ht2I6d3BqstZ

 

[Rmckoy]

Send me some of your zoa frags. I'll eat them one by one to test them out. ;Wacky

I have the large green palys .
huge colonies

 

[brandon429]

Forums still haven’t let go of the idea that reef tanks can have .25 free ammonia on a constant basis after a cycle, how can we be sourced for any info whatsoever on this matter of toxins


forums will take a concept and ride it twenty years, tight gripped, all answers following are a matter of personal conviction and zero knowledge on palytoxin without the help of a smart device, myself included I know nothing about it personally. what we can look up is what the answers will be, just like cycling.

 

[brandon429]

I officially request all mentions of palytoxin to be accompanied by the red alert bar ~

jj, only trend watching.

 

[Timfish]

Question regarding paly toxin

do all paly , zoas have the ability to produce this toxin ? Or is it as rare as what I originally thought ?

what’s the chance we all have palytoxin in our tanks but just need to be exposed to it to confirm it can produce such toxins ?

I wouldn't be surprised if it is in fact very common. I in part blame the use of the jargon terms "cook" or "cooking" being misunderstood by neophytes as literally cooking rocks. This is what happened with one of the cases I've seen sensationalized on a morning talk show. People need to understand palytoxin is thermostable so heating up anything by boiling it or using hot water can aerosolize the toxin. In a case in Alaska palytoxin apparently was splashed on a heat register which aerosolized it. It can also enter the blood stream through cuts or punctures in the skin. But people have been dying from eating seafood for decades and you don't see that being discussed any at all. Since it is also found in the dinoflagellate Ostreopsis it's likely going to be found in a lot of places.

Clinical and laboratory findings implicating palytoxin as cause of ciguatera poisoning due to Decapterus macrosoma (mackerel)

A near fatal case of ciguatera-related intoxication following consumption of smoked Decapterus macrosoma is documented. In addition to some of the hal…

www.sciencedirect.com

DEFINE_ME

Palytoxin and Analogs: Biological and Ecological Effects - PMC

Palytoxin (PTX) is a potent marine toxin that was originally found in soft corals from tropical areas of the Pacific Ocean. Soon after, its occurrence was observed in numerous other marine organisms from the same ecological region. More recently, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Palytoxin congeners - PubMed

Palytoxin, isolated from a zoanthid of the genus Palythoa, is the most potent marine toxin known. Intoxication by palytoxin leads to vasoconstriction, hemorrhage, ataxia, muscle weakness, ventricular fibrillation, pulmonary hypertension, ischemia and death. Palytoxin and its numerous derivatives...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Rmckoy]

What’s the chance if palys were not in our systems ?
is there still a chance of palytoxins still being produced via dinos ?

or are the toxins needed to be imported somewhere ?

 

[Rmckoy]

How long after eradicating zoas , palys will palytoxins remain in the system ?

 

[Timfish]

Good questions. It is unfortunate we are not able to test for palytoxin. From the above paper on Palytoxin and Analogs "rapid decomposition occurs under acid or alkaline conditions, leading to loss of its toxicity" it seems it won't stay around long in marine systems due to their alkaline nature.