Paly/zoa toxins? Wash those hands

[Mark_C]

I often reach into my tanks to replace snail-plowed coral to its position, recover a scraper, place a frag exactly where I want it, etc...
Never had a problem in all the years I've been doing this.
And I've gotten lazy.
Lazy means that I slowly moved away from gloves, then away from the thorough washing of hands.
Now I'm (I was) at, 'Well my hands were in the tank, I'll just rinse them under water' stage.
And I did just that last Friday night after reaching in, for just a second, to move a coral plug.

Annnnnddddd, then, at some point about 10 minutes later, I rubbed my eyes.

Within a minute, pins jabbing into my eyes with fire on them was a pretty good description of the pain.
Then burning, itching, instantaneous swelling, and actual eyeball pain (it felt as if my eyeballs were in a vice).
Figuring this was some type of palytoxin/zoatoxin I went to the sink and began flushing my eyes.
I would have driven to the hospital had I been able to see.

After 2+ hours of flushing, ice, anti-inflammatories, and Benadryl, I wasn't blind, though my right eye swelled completely shut for 12 hours and my left was open just a slit.

Here's me after 2-3 hours of flushing, ice, and drugs. Those fluid filled bubble pockets under my eyes and the complete visibility of blood vessels is not the norm. A few hours later the right eye was swollen shut and looked like a golf ball...

Next 24-48 hours consisted of severe burning and pain. By Monday I was able to open the right eye and tonight all seems well.

Don't get lazy. Wear gloves or wash thoroughly.

 

[James M]

Glad your okay
Palytoxin is exposed when you frag the zoa/paly, Your not exposed to it if you touch the zoa. Maybe it was something else

 

[Mike.P]

OP, I'm so sorry that happened to you! That's mildly terrifying, to say the least.

Glad your okay
Palytoxin is exposed when you frag the zoa/paly, Your not exposed to it if you touch the zoa. Maybe it was something else

@James M and #reefsquad may I please ask some seriously dumb, ELI5 questions... I've never had zoas, because of stuff like this, and articles about the "death cloud" occurrences, like the one in Alaska; until now, that I picked up a few of them from @CherryCorals @Acro76 because they were just too beautiful to pass up.

But these concerns are still nagging at me. Basically, are all of these designer zoas/palys in the trade safe? Or at least safe to the point of not causing life-threatening issues to people and pets (cats, specifically)? Aside from the common sense stuff, what precautions should be taken when moving them, transferring them between bags/tanks, or with keeping them in general?

Again, I apologize... I know there's a ton of info on this subject, but so much of it is fragmented and at times contradictory, that I wanted to get a better answer. As always, thank you in advance everyone!

 

[Coastie Reefer]

OP, I'm so sorry that happened to you! That's mildly terrifying, to say the least.



@James M and #reefsquad may I please ask some seriously dumb, ELI5 questions... I've never had zoas, because of stuff like this, and articles about the "death cloud" occurrences, like the one in Alaska; until now, that I picked up a few of them from @CherryCorals @Acro76 because they were just too beautiful to pass up.

But these concerns are still nagging at me. Basically, are all of these designer zoas/palys in the trade safe? Or at least safe to the point of not causing life-threatening issues to people and pets (cats, specifically)? Aside from the common sense stuff, what precautions should be taken when moving them, transferring them between bags/tanks, or with keeping them in general?

Again, I apologize... I know there's a ton of info on this subject, but so much of it is fragmented and at times contradictory, that I wanted to get a better answer. As ways, thank you in advance everyone!

Every paly/zoa we keep has the toxin. You are generally safe unless you get the juice in your eyes (typically from them squirting when being fragged), eat them, rub them on an open wound, boil them and breath the fumes, or some other silly thing like cooking them in seafood gumbo...

If you want to take some precautions wear latex gloves when handling them, and wear some sort of eye protection when cutting them. Other than that you're pretty safe. The horror stories and new reports are grossly exaggerated in my opinion. The one of the guy in the UK that "nearly killed his family" comes to mind.... what they fail to mention is that he basically steam powerwashed the things off a rock in his house!!!!

 

[Eve]

I often reach into my tanks to replace snail-plowed coral to its position, recover a scraper, place a frag exactly where I want it, etc...
Never had a problem in all the years I've been doing this.
And I've gotten lazy.
Lazy means that I slowly moved away from gloves, then away from the thorough washing of hands.
Now I'm (I was) at, 'Well my hands were in the tank, I'll just rinse them under water' stage.
And I did just that last Friday night after reaching in, for just a second, to move a coral plug.

Annnnnddddd, then, at some point about 10 minutes later, I rubbed my eyes.

Within a minute, pins jabbing into my eyes with fire on them was a pretty good description of the pain.
Then burning, itching, instantaneous swelling, and actual eyeball pain (it felt as if my eyeballs were in a vice).
Figuring this was some type of palytoxin/zoatoxin I went to the sink and began flushing my eyes.
I would have driven to the hospital had I been able to see.

After 2+ hours of flushing, ice, anti-inflammatories, and Benadryl, I wasn't blind, though my right eye swelled completely shut for 12 hours and my left was open just a slit.

Here's me after 2-3 hours of flushing, ice, and drugs. Those fluid filled bubble pockets under my eyes and the complete visibility of blood vessels is not the norm. A few hours later the right eye was swollen shut and looked like a golf ball...

Next 24-48 hours consisted of severe burning and pain. By Monday I was able to open the right eye and tonight all seems well.

Don't get lazy. Wear gloves or wash thoroughly.

Omg, how scary!! I am glad you are doing better! Thank you for reminding us how important it is to wash our hands after handling our reefs.

 

[Mike.P]

Every paly/zoa we keep has the toxin. You are generally safe unless you get the juice in your eyes (typically from them squirting when being fragged), eat them, rub them on an open wound, boil them and breath the fumes, or some other silly thing like cooking them in seafood gumbo...

If you want to take some precautions wear latex gloves when handling them, and wear some sort of eye protection when cutting them. Other than that you're pretty safe. The horror stories and new reports are grossly exaggerated in my opinion. The one of the guy in the UK that "nearly killed his family" comes to mind.... what they fail to mention is that he basically steam powerwashed the things off a rock in his house!!!!

Thank you for the information, that does make me feel better. This is one of the main sources that my knowledge of the matter comes from:

https://reefs.com/2015/09/14/the-dangers-and-myths-of-zoa-toxicity-part-1/

In this article, he does say that there are only certain species which contain the toxin, while the majority do not. He essentially says that, as long as care is taken to identify and breed the safe species, it shouldn't be an issue. But then other sources have said essentially what you did; they're all toxic, but safe if one doesn't do stupid things.

I have read the UK article and, you're absolutely right, it's complete dreck. But a couple from here in the States jumped out me, specifically the incident in Alaska. It didn't strike me as blown out of proportion, and the symptoms all seemed to fit.

The truth, as usual, I'm sure lies somewhere in the middle... lol. I'm just trying to gather ad much knowledge as I can. A lot of issues with toxicity in our hobby are pretty cut and dry: Don't pet a lionfish. Don't hug a rabbitfish. Don't snuggle a bristleworm (unless you are a flamethrower, in which case I encourage it), nems can hurt, especially if one is allergic.

So on, and so forth... But I've never been able to compile a single, prevailing opinion on zoas/palys.

 

[Ron Reefman]

I've got a friend who had very serious eye issues for months after a paly squirted in his eye. On the other hand, I've played with zoas and palys while barehanded for many years and I've never had an reaction to them at all, even when I had small open cuts on my hands. Even wild zoas and palys I've collected in the Florida Keys.

It's just my opinion, and I have NO science to back me up here, but I think reaction to the toxin varies a lot from person to person. Almost like an allergy or a bee sting or a mosquito bite. I know mosquito bites hardly raise a bump on me, but my wife gets an itchy bump that lasts 24 hours or more. I get stung by a bee and I get a welt that lasts for 15 minutes, my wife needs a shot of Epinephrine. I think the reaction to zoa and paly toxin can see the same kind of range of reactions.

But obviously the best course of action is to be as safe as possible.

 

[kireek]

Always lean on the side of caution in my humble opinion.Even if the toxin doesn't brother you directly it could irritate neighboring corals or even a entire system.For example if I were to come across a colony melting right before my eyes , I would opt to remove it from my tank.Then I would thoroughly wash my hands in cold water .

What really gets me is those black sponges.They make my skin feels like it's been burnt.

 

[nuke 208]

I often reach into my tanks to replace snail-plowed coral to its position, recover a scraper, place a frag exactly where I want it, etc...
Never had a problem in all the years I've been doing this.
And I've gotten lazy.
Lazy means that I slowly moved away from gloves, then away from the thorough washing of hands.
Now I'm (I was) at, 'Well my hands were in the tank, I'll just rinse them under water' stage.
And I did just that last Friday night after reaching in, for just a second, to move a coral plug.

Annnnnddddd, then, at some point about 10 minutes later, I rubbed my eyes.

Within a minute, pins jabbing into my eyes with fire on them was a pretty good description of the pain.
Then burning, itching, instantaneous swelling, and actual eyeball pain (it felt as if my eyeballs were in a vice).
Figuring this was some type of palytoxin/zoatoxin I went to the sink and began flushing my eyes.
I would have driven to the hospital had I been able to see.

After 2+ hours of flushing, ice, anti-inflammatories, and Benadryl, I wasn't blind, though my right eye swelled completely shut for 12 hours and my left was open just a slit.

Here's me after 2-3 hours of flushing, ice, and drugs. Those fluid filled bubble pockets under my eyes and the complete visibility of blood vessels is not the norm. A few hours later the right eye was swollen shut and looked like a golf ball...

Next 24-48 hours consisted of severe burning and pain. By Monday I was able to open the right eye and tonight all seems well.

Don't get lazy. Wear gloves or wash thoroughly.

So I have got poisoned by them it starts to close off your air ways and makes your heart rate really high and u with get a really bitter taste in the back of your mouth. It almost killed my dogs and family had to go to the hospital. The Lfs thought I was crazzy. a month later another guy in my town did it and it was all over the news .he Was moving rock and rubbed his eyes nd ended up blind in one eye and his dog did die. Welcome to the saltwater veterans club!!!

 

[Dkeller_nc]

Glad you're OK. There's no doubt about it - keeping zoas/palys has some associated risks. Fortunately, and as you note, those risks can be controlled, though not entirely eliminated. One aspect of your post that's a good reminder is that it's probably a good idea to wear safety glasses when fragging zoas/palys. Not only would it help prevent getting directly squirted in the eye, it's a reminder not to rub your eyes.

 

[jtl]

I would certainly make an appointment with an Ophthalmologist to make sure there is not something else going on like a secondary infection.

 

[Mark_C]

All is good. I never actually lost sight and was keeping an eye on myself (pun intended). The swelling decreased over a few days and by Wednesday/Thursday of that week all was back to the norm. Had anything gotten worse I would have been to the doc or the ER.
Now I've gotten back to latex gloves and eye protection while cutting up frags (of all types).
The post was just a reminder to folks not to get lazy.

 

[Tuan’s Reef]

Wow! Glad you are ok now. Thanks for the reminder!

We become complacent when it’s routine then something like this bring us back to reality. safety 1st!

 

[Jay Z]

Glad you’re okay.

This is a excellent reminder to the know it alls and new comers on a issue that can effect you or your loved ones.

Gloves are a must. Just a simple cut on your hand can turn into a major infection. Plus the touching of eyes or mucus membranes.

 

[DoctaReef]

Does anyone know if there is something that neutralizes the toxin that might be on our hands?
Or is soap and water enough?

 

[Tuan’s Reef]

Glad you’re okay.

This is a excellent reminder to the know it alls and new comers on a issue that can effect you or your loved ones.

Gloves are a must. Just a simple cut on your hand can turn into a major infection. Plus the touching of eyes or mucus membranes.

Yep! Looked what happened to my finger. It’s much better now that’s it healed. Guess I had dry or cut skin and reached into the tank without gloves. My ears was ringing for a week because I had an infection on my finger .

I now use the powered free non sterile gloves rubber banded at the wrist any time I go near my tank

 

[Bob Weigant]

Very good to hear your okay. I make it a habit to completely wash my hands before and after

 

[Eve]

Does anyone know if there is something that neutralizes the toxin that might be on our hands?
Or is soap and water enough?

You see!! This is the thread I was talking about!

 

[DoctaReef]

You see!! This is the thread I was talking about!

I still don’t think you should be scared of zoas! They can be amazing colors!
That being said, I wear contact lenses soooo.....[emoji51]

 

[Eve]

I still don’t think you should be scared of zoas! They can be amazing colors!
That being said, I wear contact lenses soooo.....[emoji51]

So do I lol ... fine I won’t be scared