Palytoxin: Can dissolving Palythoa release the toxin?

[thejacgues]

Hello,
I have around 21kg of love rock heavily covered in Palythoa (seems that it's most likely the dangerous specie).
I would like to put it all into a sump, without lighting and wait until it dissolves. Would it endanger myself and my livestock? Of course Activated Carbon will be used all the time, but I still wonder if such approach is wise to proceed with.

 

[Fish Think Pink]

Hello,
I have around 21kg of love rock heavily covered in Palythoa (seems that it's most likely the dangerous specie).
I would like to put it all into a sump, without lighting and wait until it dissolves. Would it endanger myself and my livestock? Of course Activated Carbon will be used all the time, but I still wonder if such approach is wise to proceed with.

How much would 21kg of rocks take to replace?

How much would your doctor's visit, steroid cream(s, and more?) as well as any potential other aquarium loss cost?

I'd vote just buy some replacement rock. Whatever it is worth, it just isn't worth the $$$... and I'm not counting in anything for the pain and itch (and embarrassment as people can see my hand and arm) ... and no, I still don't wear gloves...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I expect that dead palythoa can release toxins.

 

[olonmv]

Another member on here wrote a post about where he had a paly colony on a rock out in the texas heat for a lil over a week or so and decided to use that rock again and had placed the rock in his house and I forget the exact details but, long story short….all occupants of the house ended up in the hospital with varying symptoms from the toxins released.

 

[Spieg]

Set it outside for 4-5 weeks. Rise it off with a garden hose and it should be good to go. Palytoxin breaks down pretty quickly without water.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Another member on here wrote a post about where he had a paly colony on a rock out in the texas heat for a lil over a week or so and decided to use that rock again and had placed the rock in his house and I forget the exact details but, long story short….all occupants of the house ended up in the hospital with varying symptoms from the toxins released.

Over a month in Alabama - here’s the link:

Another story of palytoxin poisoning, recent experience

I contemplated even posting this because hindsight it could had been avoided, be gentle because I am still very sick. Yesterday after mowing the lawn I was looking at my back porch thinking yeah those paly plugs have been out here a month now in the hot southern sun, they are done for and i need...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[olonmv]

Over a month in Alabama - here’s the link:

Another story of palytoxin poisoning, recent experience

I contemplated even posting this because hindsight it could had been avoided, be gentle because I am still very sick. Yesterday after mowing the lawn I was looking at my back porch thinking yeah those paly plugs have been out here a month now in the hot southern sun, they are done for and i need...

www.reef2reef.com

Lol, THATS the one!!! Thank you!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Set it outside for 4-5 weeks. Rise it off with a garden hose and it should be good to go. Palytoxin breaks down pretty quickly without water.

How do you know that? Very few organics degrade faster when dry than when wet.

 

[Spieg]

How do you know that? Very few organics degrade faster when dry than when wet.

I read this in a paper produced by ATLANTOX some 20 years ago (sorry I don't have more detial committed to memory at this point). PTX is primarily a hemoragic toxin which is more effective in liquid form. In truth I recall that exposure to sunlight when dry is also a contributing factor to the breakdown of the relatively large palytoxin molecule.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I read this in a paper produced by ATLANTOX some 20 years ago (sorry I don't have more detial committed to memory at this point). PTX is primarily a hemoragic toxin which is more effective in liquid form. In truth I recall that exposure to sunlight when dry is also a contributing factor to the breakdown of the relatively large palytoxin molecule.

Ok, I personally expect wet degrades faster than dry in almost any given setting.

 

[thejacgues]

@Randy Holmes-Farley I read that according to scientists, Activated charcoal can clear out 99.97%) of Palytoxin within 24h once put into aquarium. I guess dissolving Palythoa shouldn't be releasing toxins as immediately as put under a short lasting stress, so I am assuming this should be a safe option. What do you think considering this perspective?

I need to handle it somehow, as many of my LPS and SPS corals have this Palythoa polyps on it. It's everywhere... I will need to detach it from corals anyway. I am planning to take one polyp sample and send it to local tropical diseases lab for testing of toxins content before I start doing anything more.

 

[ReeferHD]

Get new live rock, its not worth it.

 

[DrMMI]

After my tank crash, I had some surviving palys in my tank that I didn't want anymore. Since the tank had to cycle again, I just blacked it out with black garbage bags and jacked up the temp to 85 degrees. 6 weeks in total darkness and those MF's survived! They were shrunken down and brown, but still alive. I couldn't believe it. I ended up taking the rock out and let it bake in the sun for a few days. I then scrubbed the rocks with a brush to get off any organic material. The next day I had a fever, chills, and body aches. 24 hours later, I was totally fine. So yeah, those things can survive a nuclear war. Just get new rock.

 

[thejacgues]

The next day I had a fever, chills, and body aches. 24 hours later, I was totally fine. So yeah, those things can survive a nuclear war. Just get new rock.

Maybe a few months would do the job - I have time...

Did you use glasses, gloves and a mask during the cleaning?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

@Randy Holmes-Farley I read that according to scientists, Activated charcoal can clear out 99.97%) of Palytoxin within 24h once put into aquarium. I guess dissolving Palythoa shouldn't be releasing toxins as immediately as put under a short lasting stress, so I am assuming this should be a safe option. What do you think considering this perspective?

I need to handle it somehow, as many of my LPS and SPS corals have this Palythoa polyps on it. It's everywhere... I will need to detach it from corals anyway. I am planning to take one polyp sample and send it to local tropical diseases lab for testing of toxins content before I start doing anything more.

I'm not surprised it binds well to GAC as I expect it would based on its structure. Whether that is sufficient to eliminate safety issues, I do not know.