Palytoxin Poisoning

kate2801 · Mar 4, 2023

Hello

I’m nee here because it’s actually my husbands hobby but I’m freaking out so any advice welcome.
Earlier today he removed a large rock with these zoas on. He broke the rock as it came out and we didn’t think anything of it until about 2hours later his eye started to burn and itch. It swelled right up and has produced discharge so he went to a&e. They have flushed it and given him some drops to use at home. The eye specialist said he is about 98% blind in one eye and the other one may get worse over night tonight but he can still see out of it.

I’m guessing this must have been airbourne poisoning??

I’ve had a metallic taste in my mouth all day and a salty taste around my mouth/lips but otherwise completely fine. Our toddler was also in the room but he’s only two years old so he can’t answer any questions but he seems fit and well too.

This is where my stupid question comes into it…if it was airbourne then will it be all over my sofas etc because the tank is in our lounge. Or is it instant poisoning then stops?? I’m worried that we are all sat next to the tank this evening and possibly breathing more in??

also does anyone have any stories of their vision recovering?

If you’ve reached this far in my garbled story then thank you

vtecintegra · Mar 4, 2023

My guess is he touched them, then touched his eye. The airborne cases are usually from people boiling a rock to sterilize it. And that would cause a respiratory problem. BTW, they look like plays, not zoas, which are generally more toxic.

vetteguy53081 · Mar 4, 2023

This may very well be exposure based on symptoms.
Health care person here:

You may have had a reaction with saltwater as I would many years ago as soon as my hand went into saltwater. But what my concern is - your symptoms you mentioned. Some symptoms of Pox and zoa poisoning are:

Flu-like symptoms – Chills, Fever, Headaches, Cough, Sore Throat, Chest Pains, Muscle Aches
Rash, Itching, Numbness in Affected Area
Trouble Breathing, Shortness of Breath, Runny Nose, Wheezing
Dizziness, Blurred Vision, Fatigue, Irregular Heart Beat
Possible Foul Smell or Bitter/Metallic Taste in Mouth

Me personally, I would consult with poison center 1-800-222-1222. It is free and confidential and they can assess your symptoms and make proper recommendations. Benadryl should help BUT speak with them first Before taking any medication.

Here is helpful reading:

Symptoms Of Palytoxin Poisoning

Although poisonings are relatively rare it is important to be aware that Palytoxin poses a significant risk to human safety due to its extreme toxicity. Symptoms can occur and progress rapidly within minutes to hours after handling coral.
Severity depends on how long people have been exposed, the distance they were from the location where coral was being handled, the route of exposure and the presence of cuts or abrasions on hands (Palytoxin can easily pass through a skin wound and reach the bloodstream).
Symptoms include:

Flu-like symptoms such as coughing, fever, chills, sore throat, headache, muscle aches, chest pain, respiratory distress.
Skin symptoms: rash (hives), itching, numbness, dermatitis.
Respiratory symptoms: wheezing, tight chest, shortness of breath, runny nose, fluid in the lungs.
Gastrointestinal symptoms: abdominal cramps, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea.
Ocular symptoms, conjunctivitis, photophobia, blurred vision, corneal ulceration.(eyes in general)
Neurological symptoms: fatigue, dizziness, speech disturbance, bitter metallic taste, tremors, tingling or numbness of extremities.
Muscle symptoms: pain, weakness, cramps, spasms.
Cardiac effects: irregular, slow, fast heart rate, cardiac muscle damage, low or high blood pressure

Severe cases report muscle breakdown, kidney failure, coma and death from cardiac or respiratory failure. There is no specific treatment or antidote for Palytoxin poisoning with medical treatment limited generally to supportive care.
and contacting Poison control was the first good initiative you made.

Most aquarium-related cases occur as a result of skin exposure after prolonged handling through cuts on hands or inhalation of coral dust, steam vapors or water droplets and aerosols while cleaning, separating, growing/propagating, collecting, transporting mechanically removing or eradicating over-growing corals by pouring boiling water on live rock as well as cleaning home marine aquariums.

Uncle99 · Mar 4, 2023

I don’t think the toxin from a paly moves airborne.
But they can squirt if pressed.
It’s to discourage neighbors which invade their territory.
Follow doctors orders.

ScottB · Mar 4, 2023

Oh I am so sorry this happened. I don't know about in the UK, but very few doctors really know much about palytoxin around here in the 'States.

As others have stated, aerosolized contamination is very unlikely in this scenario. The stuff is very thick and mucus like. Maybe shut off the skimmer just to be on the safe side.

taricha · Mar 4, 2023

yikes. very sorry.
If you haven't seen it, this thread also had some people discuss accounts of palytoxin exposure.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/palytoxin-chemistry.964804/

I do not have any knowledge or expectations with eye exposure.

sidenote those palys in your picture look enough like what's in my tank - I'm glad I had started killing them off (without removing them from the water).

G Santana · Mar 4, 2023

Definitely follow doctors instructions!
I hope your husband has a full recovery!!!

Dom · Mar 4, 2023

No, it is not airborne. The toxins are in the water and I agree, he probably touched his face after touching the Palys.

When he removed the rock, what did he do with it?

I read an article where a guy hospitalized his family and two dogs because he boiled a rock with Palys to kill them off. The toxins were in the steam.

So tell us more about what happened with the rocks he removed.

MinnieMouse2 · Mar 4, 2023

Julian Sprung was moving rock and by nightfall he says he thinks paly toxin effected him. The next day his small tank everything was dead. There is a YouTube online where he talks about his experience.

MinnieMouse2 · Mar 4, 2023

Julian Sprung was moving rock and by nightfall he says he thinks paly toxin effected him. The next day his small tank everything was dead. There is a YouTube online where he talks about his experience. He also says he had not cuts on his hands.

FlyinAg · Mar 4, 2023

Did y'all mention the potential for palytoxin exposure to the doc?

Besides palytoxin, there is plenty of junk in our tanks from salt to bacteria to chemicals to cause all sorts of problems with exposure to eyes and open wounds. It's easy to be complacent and think our tanks are clean. Hoping it's something that passes soon.

MinnieMouse2 · Mar 4, 2023

This is why I have no zoa or palys in my tanks. They spread everywhere, and I work on my tanks a lot. They say you should be wearing gloves and a respirator when removing or fragging them. It must be rare to have this happen because we would have a lot of very sick reefers in the hobby for zoas are a common coral people first start with.

MinnieMouse2 · Mar 4, 2023

These palys look like Nuclear Green Palys. They highly invasive and known to take over tanks. A lot of reefers will not have them in their tanks. Zoas are a safer bet then palys.

Dom · Mar 4, 2023

And yet, I have those same Palys in my tank for about 10 years. Never an issue.

Uncle99 · Mar 5, 2023

But I can’t see the toxin moving from a liquid, to a gas and traveling far, without help.
Handled paly 40 years, if it stays in water, and you use gloves, there’s no issue.

srobertb · Mar 5, 2023

My wife is an ER doctor and this has been a more common occurrence in her field of work in the last year or two. She is looking for a case study she read recently from an optho about it. I’m not a doctor and while she’s worked at coastal sites, these are creatures traveling long distances to places they shouldn’t be. It’s very hard to find a localized expert.

I wouldn’t tell my wife (she would worry) but about a month ago I was dragging Zoas and got squirted in the eye. It burned…like bad allergies…but I did not lose vision or have continuing issues after 6-12 hours.

ryanjohn1 · Mar 5, 2023

I hope his vision comes back!

srobertb · Mar 5, 2023

Per my wife (an EM trained doctor and professor for 10+ years in the US who had a particular interest in toxicology). She has researched this because she knows I’m an accident prone idiot.

“Should have called their equivalent of Poison control though. Needs irrigation for sure if not already done. There are case reports or delayed corneal perforation, etc.

Mild cases reportedly get better but it is considered a vision threatening toxin. If someone is not familiar they could possibly underestimate the severity if the exposure. Many ocular cases also have systemic exposure (landing people on the ICU).”

brandon429 · Mar 5, 2023

my bubbling vase had 50 heads of them for years, and it's an aerosol producing pump literally because its airstone driven

I would have the lid off, breathing directly above it for hours on end cumulatively due to stocking, algae cleaning, coralline scraping, I don't believe it's transmissible by air. I think there is some other cluster of events to explain it. I am not surprised that any cross contamination via direct touching could be an issue, but aerosolization without boiling I don't factor in having owned them in the past or future. we bubbled the tank for over ten years with them right in our living room.

look how many he had

The Fools Reef ... The final 2.5 gallon long pico

Started on the 27th of august 2017 Restarted post crash end of May 2019 Equipment: -2.5 gallon rimmed seapora tank - Azoo mignon 60 gen 2 -50 watt heater (aqueon mini) -par 38 tuna blue led by abi (12w) -Ikea desk lamp (it's 13w so be sure to use a stand that works well with your bulb's wattage f...

www.nano-reef.com

plus consider the concentration/ if exudates don't build up from that # of heads in 2 gallons or less, extended running, I can't fathom six heads would pollute a large tank. direct contact transmission is possible.

tikiTorch · Mar 5, 2023

They look like Texas palys to me. I have the same ones in my tank. I don’t think it’s airborne unless you boiled the rock but to make a long response short. Mention it to the doctor so they can rule it out by testing for it.