Palytoxin

[Crimsontopper]

I really like zoas but I am scared to have them in my home because of their toxin. I have dogs, cats, kids and a wife to consider, and the risks outweigh the rewards. The local LFS owner swears the zoas he sells don't have the toxin, he only buys those without it. Is there a way to tell if the toxin is present or is he just trying to make a sale?

 

[Picesduh]

I know a lot of people who handle zoas without a care of being poisoned and then others say all of them have the ability to poison you. About two weeks ago I was cleaning my tank and my fingers rubbed up against my palys and I FREAKED out. As soon as I pulled my hand out my heart started beating faster and I found it hard to breath and felt weird. After 15 minutes of walking outside in the fresh air I was fine, I’m not sure if that was a true mild response or was it all in my head because I freaked out at first knowing all the stories of toxin poison.

 

[sundog101]

Not every zoa produces palytoxin, but I highly doubt your lfs can tell which ones do or don’t.

That said as long as your safe around them, there’s not much to worry about.
1) Don’t boil rock
2) Wear gloves and goggles if you frag them
3) Don’t mess with the rocks or corals out of the water in a poorly ventilated area.

 

[ZoWhat]

I can tell you from personal experience that 6 weeks ago there were a bunch of pale green palys I didn't like.

Not thinking it thru I threw my ungloved right arm in the tank (like a total idiot) with a toothbrush and scrubbed a whole section off a rock into nothingness underwater. Smthg about it all being underwater made it seem ok to me. I'm an idiot

All that toxin absorbed into my skin and I awoke the next day with flu-like symptoms:
heavy chested breathing coughing,
major headache,
absolutely zero appetite,
dizziness upon standing,
very tired.
No fever,
slight elevated heartrate but not in any danger zone,
i also did feel like my blood pressure was up slightly but not like I had to go to the ER.

First 3 days were the worst as I felt like total c.r.a.p. .....I think I ate 2 meals in 3 days. No vomiting, just ZERO appetite.

By days 4-7.....felt 50% better. By day 10 I felt pretty healthy again. Lord knows what I did to my liver and kidneys.

I thought about going to the Dr but we have a high $8k deductible.

Dr prob would have only put two bags of saline in me anyways and charged me $1,000 for the 6hr visit

I know NEVER to do that again.

Palytoxin is a REAL danger and closer to getting it into your bloodstream than you ever realized

I feel like a total idiot from the Dumb and Dumber movies....but I wanted to tell my story just how dangerous and real this toxin is....

.

 

[sundog101]

Not thinking it thru I threw my ungloved right arm in the tank with a toothbrush and scrubbed a bunch into nothingness.

4) Don’t do that ^

 

[Sabellafella]

I really like zoas but I am scared to have them in my home because of their toxin. I have dogs, cats, kids and a wife to consider, and the risks outweigh the rewards. The local LFS owner swears the zoas he sells don't have the toxin, he only buys those without it. Is there a way to tell if the toxin is present or is he just trying to make a sale?

Lol he only buys ones without it. That's up there with the notorious - trying to sell aiptasia as a beautiful glass anemone.

From what I've gathered over the years, the large palys fall into the category of potentially being dangerous. There's no way of knowing without 10s of thousands of dollars invested in lab equipment other then getting sick from them. Majority of the hospitals out here havnt even heard of palytoxin poisoning. Either way, if they are indeed extremely poisonous or clean. Caution is advised. Don't boil them or give them a reason to become airborne. I doubt something bad will happen, Everyone one way or another has zoanthids without issues. People frag them without the proper safety day in and day out, they rarely if not never get sick. Its scary to think about it, i still hate the fact that their dangerous. Just don't buy like nuclear greens or those purple death palys. The other small zoathinds don't seem to cause any harm whatsoever

 

[Davy Jones]

They should be harmless under normal circumstances . They only release toxins when they are getting messed with via fragging, scrubbing (like above) boiled or cooked (don't do this for any reason, palytoxin or not.) Just existing in your tank they should be totally fine.

IF you are going to mess with them, wear arm length gloves and eye protection, open a window maybe and you should be okay.

 

[Kremis]

Assume all zoanthids contain palytoxin and treat them as such.

Do not:
Propogate without using a mask and gloves
boil the rock
leave rocks that contain them out for pets to potentially lick
touch them then touch your face

Also, if you feel like for whatever reason you have gotten palytox on your face, quickly shower. I was propogating zoas and got squirted in the face, immediatly took a shower and ended up with allergy-like symptoms (stuffed nose, etc) for a few hours.

otherwise they are pretty safe. I have over 30 types in my reef

 

[Crimsontopper]

Yeah, I think I'm going to go ahead and not buy them...

 

[sundog101]

I can tell you from personal experience that 6 weeks ago there were a bunch of pale green palys I didn't like.

Not thinking it thru I threw my ungloved right arm in the tank (like a total idiot) with a toothbrush and scrubbed a whole section off a rock into nothingness underwater. Smthg about it all being underwater made it seem ok to me. I'm an idiot

All that toxin absorbed into my skin and I awoke the next day with flu-like symptoms:
heavy chested breathing coughing,
major headache,
absolutely zero appetite,
dizziness upon standing,
very tired.
No fever,
slight elevated heartrate but not in any danger zone,
i also did feel like my blood pressure was up slightly but not like I had to go to the ER.

First 3 days were the worst as I felt like total c.r.a.p. .....I think I ate 2 meals in 3 days. No vomiting, just ZERO appetite.

By days 4-7.....felt 50% better. By day 10 I felt pretty healthy again. Lord knows what I did to my liver and kidneys.

I thought about going to the Dr but we have a high $8k deductible.

Dr prob would have only put two bags of saline in me anyways and charged me $1,000 for the 6hr visit

I know NEVER to do that again.

Palytoxin is a REAL danger and closer to getting it into your bloodstream than you ever realized

I feel like a total idiot from the Dumb and Dumber movies....but I wanted to tell my story just how dangerous and real this toxin is....

.

You’re not an idiot

Now the lfs guy who has palytoxin vision may be a different story haha

 

[Rakie]

Yeah, I think I'm going to go ahead and not buy them...

This stuff is being blown WAY out of proportion. The vast majority of them are completely harmless unless you thrash them around, or boil them. They don't just randomly fart out poison for no reason, or if you accidentally touch them. You have to aggressively shred them to bits to make that kind of poisoning happen. You can't even do that on accident.

Paly toxin is real. Paly toxin can be dangerous. That doesn't mean zoa's and paly's are suddenly dangerous though..

Here's the list of things you can't do to zoas:
- scrub them with a steel brush
- boil your tank to over 100*f
- try to physically kill them
- lick them
- rub them in your eyes
- fondle them for hours

As long as you don't do those things, you will be completely fine.

 

[BluTang85]

Here's the list of things you can't do to zoas:
- scrub them with a steel brush
- boil your tank to over 100*f
- try to physically kill them
- lick them
- rub them in your eyes
- fondle them for hours

;Smuggrin Lick them and fondle them gave me a good laugh.
All the above +
Well ventilated area
Wear gloves, any cuts the toxin can enter blood stream
Wear eye protection cause they can squirt. Also keep mouth closed if fragging

 

[Sabellafella]

Yeah, I think I'm going to go ahead and not buy them...

Lol! It's good to be cautious. But your just over thinking it =)

 

[Crimsontopper]

Lol! It's good to be cautious. But your just over thinking it =)

Maybe, but some of those look like candies and I have a 4 year old that puts stupid stuff in his mouth. Maybe when they're older...

 

[Potatohead]

I can tell you from personal experience that 6 weeks ago there were a bunch of pale green palys I didn't like.

Not thinking it thru I threw my ungloved right arm in the tank (like a total idiot) with a toothbrush and scrubbed a whole section off a rock into nothingness underwater. Smthg about it all being underwater made it seem ok to me. I'm an idiot

All that toxin absorbed into my skin and I awoke the next day with flu-like symptoms:
heavy chested breathing coughing,
major headache,
absolutely zero appetite,
dizziness upon standing,
very tired.
No fever,
slight elevated heartrate but not in any danger zone,
i also did feel like my blood pressure was up slightly but not like I had to go to the ER.

First 3 days were the worst as I felt like total c.r.a.p. .....I think I ate 2 meals in 3 days. No vomiting, just ZERO appetite.

By days 4-7.....felt 50% better. By day 10 I felt pretty healthy again. Lord knows what I did to my liver and kidneys.

I thought about going to the Dr but we have a high $8k deductible.

Dr prob would have only put two bags of saline in me anyways and charged me $1,000 for the 6hr visit

I know NEVER to do that again.

Palytoxin is a REAL danger and closer to getting it into your bloodstream than you ever realized

I feel like a total idiot from the Dumb and Dumber movies....but I wanted to tell my story just how dangerous and real this toxin is....

.

I mean, it sucks that happened and nobody likes being sick, but without going to the doctor and getting blood work confirming a toxin, you don't know if was palytoxin that did it.

 

[Gablami]

I mean, it sucks that happened and nobody likes being sick, but without going to the doctor and getting blood work confirming a toxin, you don't know if was palytoxin that did it.

I don’t believe there is a readily available serological test for palytoxin. The doctor is more likely to say “Yup, sounds like it could be...what did you call it again? Yeah, Paly toxin, that’s right.”

 

[Adele]

This stuff is being blown WAY out of proportion. The vast majority of them are completely harmless unless you thrash them around, or boil them. They don't just randomly fart out poison for no reason, or if you accidentally touch them. You have to aggressively shred them to bits to make that kind of poisoning happen. You can't even do that on accident.

Paly toxin is real. Paly toxin can be dangerous. That doesn't mean zoa's and paly's are suddenly dangerous though..

Here's the list of things you can't do to zoas:
- scrub them with a steel brush
- boil your tank to over 100*f
- try to physically kill them
- lick them
- rub them in your eyes
- fondle them for hours

As long as you don't do those things, you will be completely fine.

LOL. “Fondle them for hours”. Would you say the Fondle Maximum is at 10-15 minuets?

 

[Rakie]

LOL. “Fondle them for hours”. Would you say the Fondle Maximum is at 10-15 minuets?

Well I can frag them without gloves for at least half an hour so I wouldn't go past that. Times may vary depending on if you rub them on your eyes or lick them. I get it, some of them look like candy.. Still though

 

[Twisted_Blenny]

i agree i think people are blowing this wayyyyy out of proportion. its great that you're being cautious but thats no reason to fear them. as long as your careful like eveyone has stated youll be fine. Zoa/Palys can be some of the most beautiful corals in your tank. enjoy them.

and if its your kids your worried about maybe get a top/screen so they arnt reaching in. lol youll be fine ill send you a free frag to try

 

[Crimsontopper]

The main thing i was wondering, and did not articulate well, was whether or not there are widely known varieties that do not contain the toxin. I know I don't want the toxin in my home right now.