Palytoxin

[novatoad]

The last two times I have cleaned out my tank I have gotten sick—like flu symptoms. All I do is scrape the glass and vacuum water. I NEVER scrape the rocks or touch the coral.

First time, it happened a few days later with a fever, sore throat, and a cough. This past week I got a sore throat while cleaning the tank and had a fever the next day of 101. Both times I have lost fish. The first time I didn’t put it all together because it was delayed. This time it was pretty instant with me and the fish dying. After a week this time I went and got medicine because it turned into a sinus infection. This last round was pretty bad. These are my culprits. Any clue what type and if they could be releasing the toxin? If I were to guess it is the picture with the longer stalks. That’s the newest within the last 2 months. The other 2 I have had for months with no problem. But I wanted some opinions….

 

[Poseidon03]

Honestly, you should be fine unless you squish, tear, or cut them. You wouldn't have symptoms the next day, it would be close to when you came in contact with it and your body would slowly neutralize the toxin. Most of the stories you hear about are of people boiling rocks with the coral on them and aerosolizing the palytoxin.

 

[James M]

youre definitely not getting sick from the zoas

 

[Timfish]

+1

Palytoxin is pretty fast acting so you should feel symptoms pretty quick. I wouldn't use dead fish as an indicator of palytoxin either. Fish can actually have higher levels of palytoxin than what might be encountered in palies, deaths from ciguatera poisoning after eating contaminated fish or seafood is actually caused by palytoxin.

I don't want to make light of your problem. If you are repetedly getting sick after you work on your aquarium you may have a sensitivity to something. Try wearing elbow length gloves maybe? Certainly consider seeking medical advice!

 

[Glenner’sreef]

Agreed with others. I would have told you to get a covid test. Did with my sister a week ago. Her “sinus infection” tested positive for covid. Run carbon any how if you suspect any soft coral toxins.

 

[The_Paradox]

Zoas!!! Did you make accidental eye contact with them? That’s how they get you.

 

[Borat]

You have some allergic reaction to something in the tank (some people are allergic to any sea things...).. very unlikely anything to do with palytoxins...

 

[edd59]

avoid using vacuum, it will put a mist in the air

 

[mbmax]

You should not have a sinus infection from palytoxin . Infections are cause by virus or bacteria.

 

[Icryhard]

youre definitely not getting sick from the zoas

I wouldn't be so sure. He mentions he's getting sick every time he sticks his hand in there and he has the symptoms of the palytoxin poisening (aside from the sinus infection).

To OP: Buy those cow gloves. The ones which go all the way up to your shoulder.

 

[James M]

I wouldn't be so sure. He mentions he's getting sick every time he sticks his hand in there and he has the symptoms of the palytoxin poisening (aside from the sinus infection).

To OP: Buy those cow gloves. The ones which go all the way up to your shoulder.

I recommend reading up on palytoxin poising. You don’t get it from cleaning glass and doing water changes

 

[duran760]

It’s not zoas. I frag a lot of zoas and have had exposure to toxins but nothing crazy enough to go to the hospital or anything. You get a metallic taste and feel a little slow. Goes away in a couple of minutes. I’m a diesel mechanic and get small cuts in my hand without noticing. Even with gloves all it takes is a small hole on the gloves and you will feel it. Seek medical attention if needed. Take care of yourself.

 

[DaneGer21]

Our tanks are bacteria cesspool’s, may have a sensitivity to something else inside.

Hard to say for sure.

Like mentioned, get a pair of full arm length gloves

 

[Icryhard]

I recommend reading up on palytoxin poising. You don’t get it from cleaning glass and doing water changes

To quote:

Palytoxin Poisoning: Marine Aquarium Safety | SA Health

Palytoxin poisoning: Zoanthid coral species can contain Palytoxin and cause dangerous symptoms if not handled carefully. Protect your family with these aquarium tips.

www.sahealth.sa.gov.au

• Exposure to Palytoxin can also occur by direct contact with intact or damaged skin, by direct contact with eyes or by inhaling aerosols or steam vapours associated with aquariums or the natural marine environment.

Better to be safe than sorry. We do not know anything about OP his medically history and inhaling vaporized water could very well cause it. Simply disregarding it because "you won't get it by scraping X Y Z" isn't going to do it.

 

[Northern Flicker]

I mean, if this were me, and it was affecting my enjoyment of the tank, I would simply move the palys over to another tank/container, run carbon for a day or 2, then see if the tank still causes symptoms. Then, you could test the container with the palys, to see if there is any reaction just to the water.

Zoas are nice but if they are causing you anxiety, legit or not, they aren't worth it.

 

[snorklr]

i have officially named this condition...i call it palynoia...every time i do something in my tank and dont feel right i start to obsess over whether or not its caused by palytoxin and the anxiety causes the symptoms (if there even were any) to get worse

 

[James M]

To quote:

Palytoxin Poisoning: Marine Aquarium Safety | SA Health

Palytoxin poisoning: Zoanthid coral species can contain Palytoxin and cause dangerous symptoms if not handled carefully. Protect your family with these aquarium tips.

www.sahealth.sa.gov.au

• Exposure to Palytoxin can also occur by direct contact with intact or damaged skin, by direct contact with eyes or by inhaling aerosols or steam vapours associated with aquariums or the natural marine environment.

Better to be safe than sorry. We do not know anything about OP his medically history and inhaling vaporized water could very well cause it. Simply disregarding it because "you won't get it by scraping X Y Z" isn't going to do it.

So you’re saying you can get palytoxin from water changes and scrapping glass without ever fragging or touching Zoas
Got it

 

[workhz]

So you’re saying you can get palytoxin from water changes and scrapping glass without ever fragging or touching Zoas
Got it

When people use the words can or could it covers a wide range of possibilities that words don’t effectively communicate.

Like, you could get hit by satellite debris falling out of the sky next week.

 

[Icryhard]

So you’re saying you can get palytoxin from water changes and scrapping glass without ever fragging or touching Zoas
Got it

That's not what I said, but I am glad you have showed us that your comprehensive reading lacks severely.

 

[vetteguy53081]

The last two times I have cleaned out my tank I have gotten sick—like flu symptoms. All I do is scrape the glass and vacuum water. I NEVER scrape the rocks or touch the coral.

First time, it happened a few days later with a fever, sore throat, and a cough. This past week I got a sore throat while cleaning the tank and had a fever the next day of 101. Both times I have lost fish. The first time I didn’t put it all together because it was delayed. This time it was pretty instant with me and the fish dying. After a week this time I went and got medicine because it turned into a sinus infection. This last round was pretty bad. These are my culprits. Any clue what type and if they could be releasing the toxin? If I were to guess it is the picture with the longer stalks. That’s the newest within the last 2 months. The other 2 I have had for months with no problem. But I wanted some opinions….

Sounds like an allergic reaction to ingredient within the salts of fumes from within tank unrelated to toxins. You should be wearing a mask each time to alleviate the fume portion of maintenance. regarding palytoxins:
You may have had a reaction with saltwater as I would many years ago as soon as my hand went into saltwater. But what my concern is - your symptoms you mentioned. Some symptoms of Pox and zoa poisoning are:

• Flu-like symptoms – Chills, Fever, Headaches, Cough, Sore Throat, Chest Pains, Muscle Aches
• Rash, Itching, Numbness in Affected Area
• Trouble Breathing, Shortness of Breath, Runny Nose, Wheezing
• Dizziness, Blurred Vision, Fatigue, Irregular Heart Beat
• Possible Foul Smell or Bitter/Metallic Taste in Mouth

Me personally, I would consult with poison center 1-800-222-1222. It is free and confidential and they can assess your symptoms and make proper recommendations. Benadryl should help BUT speak with them first Before taking any medication.

Here is helpful reading:

Symptoms Of Palytoxin Poisoning​

Although poisonings are relatively rare it is important to be aware that Palytoxin poses a significant risk to human safety due to its extreme toxicity. Symptoms can occur and progress rapidly within minutes to hours after handling coral.
Severity depends on how long people have been exposed, the distance they were from the location where coral was being handled, the route of exposure and the presence of cuts or abrasions on hands (Palytoxin can easily pass through a skin wound and reach the bloodstream).
Symptoms include:

• Flu-like symptoms such as coughing, fever, chills, sore throat, headache, muscle aches, chest pain, respiratory distress.
• Skin symptoms: rash (hives), itching, numbness, dermatitis.
• Respiratory symptoms: wheezing, tight chest, shortness of breath, runny nose, fluid in the lungs.
• Gastrointestinal symptoms: abdominal cramps, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea.
• Ocular symptoms, conjunctivitis, photophobia, blurred vision, corneal ulceration.(eyes in general)
• Neurological symptoms: fatigue, dizziness, speech disturbance, bitter metallic taste, tremors, tingling or numbness of extremities.
• Muscle symptoms: pain, weakness, cramps, spasms.
• Cardiac effects: irregular, slow, fast heart rate, cardiac muscle damage, low or high blood pressure

Severe cases report muscle breakdown, kidney failure, coma and death from cardiac or respiratory failure. There is no specific treatment or antidote for Palytoxin poisoning with medical treatment limited generally to supportive care.
and contacting Poison control was the first good initiative you made.

• Most aquarium-related cases occur as a result of skin exposure after prolonged handling through cuts on hands or inhalation of coral dust, steam vapors or water droplets and aerosols while cleaning, separating, growing/propagating, collecting, transporting mechanically removing or eradicating over-growing corals by pouring boiling water on live rock as well as cleaning home marine aquariums.