PAR in the Wild at Depth

PAR meters for air does not work in water - they will give the wrong number - especially if you run heavy in blues.


My bad :D you are right

Sincerely Lasse
Bro I like you!!
 
It was a matter of speech!! A little exaggeration!! My bad. Your taking simple
Umm, that wasn't even addressed to you... it was addressed to the guy who actually said that 1m = 0.3 feet back in 2020. And he has replied acknowledging the correction. You're quite defensive eh? I have no quarrel with you sir...
 
Old man too an
You obviously don't know chit about the barrier reef, redsea reef or the indo reefs. I have actually dove them , by your punk attitude I know you have not.

Your one of those little yappers who think they know everything, so don't learn chit from people with real knowledgeh
You obviously don't know chit about the barrier reef, redsea reef or the indo reefs. I have actually dove them , by your punk attitude I know you have not.

Your one of those little yappers who think they know everything, so don't learn chit from people with real knowledge
Ok so you may have stepped over your line old man!! So from one old man to the next. Learn and don’t be ignorant to actual help others are trying to express!! I’m over 40 fella and have been from the Nile to the Great Lakes ( do you even remember what those are) I’ll wait for the meds to kick in!! Lol. Like I said ain’t a **** fight it’s for people to know!!!! So keep bringing your chit lol it’s simply put!! Get it straight!!par meters are like your rebuttal a phone booth!! Waite what the heck is a phone booth
 
Umm, that wasn't even addressed to you... it was addressed to the guy who actually said that 1m = 0.3 feet back in 2020. And he has replied acknowledging the correction. You're quite defensive eh? I have no quarrel with you sir...
No quarrels in any way. Every one has their own thoughts. I’m definitely not defensive. I was just saying I like you and your posts
 
All I see is a very dark blue tank with rock. No coral ect. I assume a bad picture taker?
My questions were to see what your actually producing with your claimed wisdom.
I have been growing coral since 1988, never seen a 4k par meter on the market for reef use.

Ilk give you an example of why a par meter is not junk.
I set up a new 1200gal system. My lights, ledzeal mirage x200 blue are 17 inches above the water. And set at 40% per channel now. After having issues, and contemplating adding additional light, I did a par/pur/Kelvin test. I currently have 290-301 par on the bottom of my 400g, 500-550 at mid and 700+at the top.
Originally I was running at 60% per channel and had about 550 on the bottom.

I lost about 8k in highend frags due to this.
This system is about 10 months old and is getting stocked with only high end pieces. Ill post pics of my last system too.
 

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No quarrels in any way. Every one has their own thoughts. I’m definitely not defensive. I was just saying I like you and your posts
No you didn't, you said "It was a matter of speech!!! a little exaggeration!!! my bad. Your taking simple" I even quoted it in that reply. Perhaps you should read thoroughly before hitting the reply button... just a thought... But I also just realized, you're also the same dude who was yelling at me in the other thread about BRS/Bertram buying EcoTech, so I'm done with you man... You're one of those guys who think that their money makes them great, you've made several posts about how much money you spend on things like because of the amount of money you spend it means you know everything... It's just not cool man... I think you should take a break for the night, re-assess tomorrow, and come back...
 
No you didn't, you said "It was a matter of speech!!! a little exaggeration!!! my bad. Your taking simple" I even quoted it in that reply. Perhaps you should read thoroughly before hitting the reply button... just a thought... But I also just realized, you're also the same dude who was yelling at me in the other thread about BRS/Bertram buying EcoTech, so I'm done with you man... You're one of those guys who think that their money makes them great, you've made several posts about how much money you spend on things like because of the amount of money you spend it means you know everything... It's just not cool man... I think you should take a break for the night, re-assess tomorrow, and come back...
My guy yelling never!! You must realize I am the calmest dude in the world. lol bro I’m Canadian are you kidding me.!! And second the money yeah I worked my butt off for it. I used it to do a lot of things!! And number one was to try to help people not to spend the dumb cash I did. I’m definitely not bragging cause there’s guys that make a billion more than me. You might be taking things a little wrong!!! My post is concerning a useless machine that costs multiple thousands and if your not spending that..then it’s not a valuable piece of machinery!!! Unfortunate but true!! I spoke the truth and can and will show any tank of mine!!! I have a few. And not my first tank of rodeo. If defensive is what it sounds like.. my apologies it is what is is. The truth. My friend I work with engineers, horticulturist, botanists. what the heck do I have too gain from a like on a page!!!! Nothing. Simple trying to help a few out. Cause I did not have it when needed at that time and looked for all the answers
 
It was a matter of speech!! A little exaggeration!! My bad. Your taking simple

beautiful set up!! And I’ll say yes pics are not the best lol my bad. But… in that mix of your discussion you said you lost 8k!! You if your the part meter guy then I will say this too you. Your not using the correct setting/ lumen for your grow!!! I sent you the exact meter I’m using I think you can now pick it up for like 7K it’s German.(opsira) I purchased it because I grow over 20mil worth of marry Jane every 2.5 months. Not sure if you know Canopy, aphria, few others, yeadda yeadda. This is where I learned do not trust the par meter!!! Under your canopy it much different!!!! I understand lighting and plants/coral it’s what I’m paid for. But what works for one does not mean it will work for another. But if I were you I would be looking at spectrum!! Not par!!! Go under the water and sit there for hrs!!! Tell me about the heat and how the sun is crazy. lol it’s photosynthesis!!!!
I lost the 8k in frags before I got the par meter. Found out I was cooking my frags with way to much light compared to the systems they were coming out of. Pulling frags out of 350 par and sticking them under 600 par leads to dead coral.

The heat of the sun is not relative oboe water and below. The average temp of the barrier reef, redsea, indo pacific ect is 77 f. If you measure specific reefs, temps will quickly drop to 76f at 10 meters.
While the first meter will be 78f
And the deck of the boat be 90f+.
Growing Marijuana and sps have very little to do with each other especially when it comes to light.

Best Marijuana I've seen on a production level was hydroponic skunk from Canada. That was grown in houses with plant grow metal halides.

That being said, the plant grow leds you all use these days are not worth jack for growing sps . As others said your par meter is not worth jack to measure par under water. If you were coming from the perspective of growing coral under sunlight, I'd give your claims some merit, but your lighting is leds, and your pics show a blue tank with no noticeable coral growing. That leads me to believe you don't have any experience in growing CORAL .
 
My guy yelling never!! You must realize I am the calmest dude in the world. lol bro I’m Canadian are you kidding me.!! And second the money yeah I worked my butt off for it. I used it to do a lot of things!! And number one was to try to help people not to spend the dumb cash I did. I’m definitely not bragging cause there’s guys that make a billion more than me. You might be taking things a little wrong!!! My post is concerning a useless machine that costs multiple thousands and if your not spending that..then it’s not a valuable piece of machinery!!! Unfortunate but true!! I spoke the truth and can and will show any tank of mine!!! I have a few. And not my first tank of rodeo. If defensive is what it sounds like.. my apologies it is what is is. The truth. My friend I work with engineers, horticulturist, botanists. what the heck do I have too gain from a like on a page!!!! Nothing. Simple trying to help a few out. Cause I did not have it when needed at that time and looked for all the answers
"I spent $4,000 on a PAR meter and it was useless"
"My tires are worth more than you make in a year"
"I spend over $100,000 a year with them, I would get an e-mail if they had been bought"

^^^ Besides the first quote, the other 2 sound more like bragging/using your money to make a point... it doesn't work that way
 
The video says 21.5 meters or 70 feet. Where did you get the PAR numbers?

Guesstimated PAR numbers based on Dana's data. Dr. Carlson is diving a part of the Big Island of Hawaii very similar to where Dana took his measurements. (heck I don't remember, it may even been on of his measurement sites)
 
"I spent $4,000 on a PAR meter and it was useless"
"My tires are worth more than you make in a year"
"I spend over $100,000 a year with them, I would get an e-mail if they had been bought"

^^^ Besides the first quote, the other 2 sound more like bragging/using your money to make a point... it doesn't work that way
 
2.3k in just these 2 frags as an example
 

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I got this Red Planet from a higher light Acro tank. It was in 400+ PAR.

I put it in about 200 PAR near the bottom of the tank and it instantly took off.
972A8609-6F81-4163-81A1-6A5A31541DAD.jpeg

I'd assume that 400 PAR was from LEDs (vice MHs or natural sunlight. T5s could never get you to 400 PAR :D )

And in that case @jda 's point applies here. 400PAR from an LED and 1000-some PAR noontime max from sunlight are different animals. The latter is obviously optimum for growth; it would seem lower PAR might be better when using LEDs.
 
I'd assume that 400 PAR was from LEDs (vice MHs or natural sunlight. T5s could never get you to 400 PAR :D )

And in that case @jda 's point applies here. 400PAR from an LED and 1000-some PAR noontime max from sunlight are different animals. The latter is obviously optimum for growth; it would seem lower PAR might be better when using LEDs.
A PowerModule can definitely get you to 400 PAR with LED’s at only 20%. Probably more than 400 PAR.
 
Some additional pics of my 400g (the lit part of my 1200gal system) and pics from my previous 270g system.
 

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You’ve put several messages together!! Lol all from different posts and if you were to read them they state!! I spent the dumb cash and hoping all wouldn’t do what I did. Your right it ain’t about the money but I can say this I have purchased almost every light. From hps/ too led. HLG , echo, stratons, ai, so for the guy with a blank tank!! me as you said!! I’ll take it!! I have absolutely nothing!!! And I’ll take my nothing!! Ps much more than you think
 

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Bro I like you!!

My bad was not directed to you

The problem with older PAR meters under water was

1) They need a correction factor or a sensor with inbuilt correction factor for the immersion effect
2) many of them underestimate PAR from the blue wavelengths

This means that 400 PAR in mostly blue was much higher than 400 PAR in white light with many old models ( white = all wavelengths together)

Here is a part from Apogees homepage



Sincerely Lasse
 
We now have the possibility to simulate the natural lighting conditions present at a certain moment at a certain place at a certain depth and imitate it a certain depth in the aquarium. What we can't do is mimic the light intensity difference. If we simulate the light intensity at 5 meters sea depth in a 1 meter deep aquarium at a depth of 0.5 m with 20000 lumens, then +-17000 lumens remains on the bottom only 0.5m deeper or as much as at 10 meters sea depth. A coral that grows in the sea at a depth of 10 meters and reaches a height of 0.5 meters receives about 5% less light at the bottom than at the top. We cannot simulate that. As a result, a coral that grows up in captivity will take on a shape other than its natural. ref: MB verlichting
PAR is not the same as PPF (photosynthetic photon flux or Photosynthetically Active Photon Flux Density ) taking in account the color temperature.
One must take into account the different light-sensitive color pigments produced by the symbiodinium to absorb photons within a certain color spectrum. And that is not just blue light in what appears to us as a bluish environment . The bluish light of a certain depth must consist of the correct color spectrum so that all the color pigments can be used to the maximum. Measuring PAR of a lamp that emits light in one particular light color or spectrum is therefore of little use in my opinion.
Too much light occurs regularly in nature and coral symbiodinium has built in natural defenses for this, but it is rare in nature that these conditions last too long. More sensitive corals will be on the southwest or southeast side of the reef or grow up at greater depths using different color spectrums. Some types of corals are able to live in very different light conditions, which does not mean that they adapt easily if they are suddenly subjected to different lighting conditions.

That is why the active photo-period is of great importance for corals kept in an aquarium and according to research it is sufficient that this period is approximately nine hours spread over the day of 12 hours. ref: MB verlichting
Too much light slows down coral growth but must not be considered dangerous as long the photo-period is limited.
On the other hand too much light has shown to bleach corals. Continuous illumination (24 hours 150µEm²S) resulted in instant bleaching and dead. ref: MB verlichting

Corals protect themselves against too much light, dinoflagellates have a xanthophyll cycle. In dinoflagellates, the xanthophyll cycle consists of the pigment diadinoxanthin, which is converted under high light conditions into dinoxanthin . ref: MB Symbiose met algen Anthias 2020 Cyano are not able to do that and may be killed by intensive light. ref: MB Cyanobacteriën CMF De Haes 2018-2019
 
Seems people are forgetting ocean sunlight is dynamic.
Your " peak par" may only be in effect for an hour or two. ( Data available).
The precession also affects form as the change in angle will encourage or discourage growth in the affected zones.
 
Opsira is my par unit unit lol and I was wrong it was $ 3300 Canadian!!!! My bad it was just under what I said. But if it’s a **** fight!! I drive a little Chevy that is 20” lifted and my tires worth what you make in a year. Ohh and the Jaguar I won’t even get into. It’s not about!! Who’s is bigger my friend and show me yours!! It’s helping one another!! So let’s keep it this way. The very truth is we underlight our tanks and take a meters truth!!! Do you actually know how hot it is on any reef ( great barrier) and how many lumens the reef actually gets!! I’ll wait!! I have had this discussion with multiple and at the end!! We as humans can not still understand the actual life the sun screams at us. Much love not trying to be rude in any way. And hoping I’m not expressing like that.
I find your ranting kind of funny with all that money you should be able to afford some common sense because I have a $250 par meter I've already made my money back by par testing other people's tanks and some and mine works amazing I can even record data and go back and look at it maybe you should have bought an apogee instead because you sound like one of those people with a lot of money that likes trying to rub it in other people's faces that you know so much and clearly after your rants you're one of those people whose right no matter what but hate to say it truck or jaguar and whatever else you have has nothing to do with Par but since you have all that money you can give me $250 and I'll come par after your whole tank for you in under 30 minutes ‍.js
 
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IF YOU HAD TO TAKE A REEFING EXAM, WOULD YOU PASS?

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