PAR zoas are getting, enough or not?

[Akwarius]

I'm glad to hear you found the information useful.

As for par, I would take a 'wait and see' approach before increasing intensity. Our little experimental LED tank does well in the 40-90 par range. My prediction is you'll see a marked improvement of zoa health after changing the spectrum.

 

[joshporksandwich]

Just buy cheap chinesse leds and run them at 100% for 8 hrs 3 feet from the water surface. My scientific contribution lol. You guys are too smart.

 

[Akwarius]

Just buy cheap chinesse leds and run them at 100% for 8 hrs 3 feet from the water surface. My scientific contribution lol. You guys are too smart.

Aw shucks keeping zoas is easy guys. I love ya Josh, and I admire your success, but it seems like you're mocking the scientific understanding of zoanthid health. The 'blind luck' approach doesnt work for everyone. If it did, I wouldn't be getting emails every other week from people melting zoas.

 

[reefwars]

i mentioned this in your other thread but those pieces look to be freshly made , its not uncommon for them to not take to the fragging or heal as fast as some others do , and very common to lose color for a bit after fragging depending on how the process was done. i make on average 500-1000 zoanthids a month and while ive done this for 6 yrs and consider myself experienced at it ......you still wont win them all.

 

[Saltwater gardens]

But there are not freshly made, they have been in the same frag plug for six months and I havent seen any new polyps, in fact, I think there are less polyps now. So for that reason I think is a light issue, but no entirley sure until I see any results with the new schedule. Since you seem to have a lot of experience with zoas, whats your opinion about their health?

 

[reefwars]

I'am running a Radion XR30w pro over my frag tank plus some natural sunlight. And I have this zoas that are no getting full polyp extension with this amount of PAR. The schedule of the Radion is two hours of 6,500 K, followed by six hours of 12,000 K, and another two hours of 6,500 k before the lights go out. Whats your opinion on why they are no getting complete polyp extension?


PAR they are getting.


Zoas not getting full polyp extension.

do you have a full tank shot?


well it would be hard to pinpoint it exactly but the polyps that are open are healthy although not 100% , i assume youv'e did the search for zoanthid nudibranchs and other pests ?

a bit about the system itself , background, what it contains and how its maintanance would help diagnose your issue for sure

looks to be some lps in the back ground , how are they doing?

 

[joshporksandwich]

Aw shucks keeping zoas is easy guys. I love ya Josh, and I admire your success, but it seems like you're mocking the scientific understanding of zoanthid health. The 'blind luck' approach doesnt work for everyone. If it did, I wouldn't be getting emails every other week from people melting zoas.

I'm not mocking it I'm just not as smart as you guys. I currently have setup 7 tanks and even though I don't understand all the scientific stuff I know what par most zoas like and with having so many different morphs I have been able to experiment with different frags at different pars, flow or any other thing that might make a zoa grow. And believe me I get a lot of email, pms and facebook questions as well. I guess we will need to call the JPS method the blind luck method lol. Blind luck method = keep everything at medium light 121-180 par and medium flow and 85-90% of your zoas will live.

 

[Akwarius]

I'm not mocking it I'm just not as smart as you guys. I currently have setup 7 tanks and even though I don't understand all the scientific stuff I know what par most zoas like and with having so many different morphs I have been able to experiment with different frags at different pars, flow or any other thing that might make a zoa grow. And believe me I get a lot of email, pms and facebook questions as well. I guess we will need to call the JPS method the blind luck method lol. Blind luck method = keep everything at medium light 121-180 par and medium flow and 85-90% of your zoas will live.

I apologize for coming down hard on you about this. The 'blind luck' term that I used insults your talent for the hobby. You're obviously a smart dude, and reading a few scientific papers or advanced aquarist doesnt make us any smarter. There are different levels of understanding and approaching this hobby. There is no doubt that people can outsmart themselves with a theory that has some basis in science, just to have it not translate to the reef very well. I've been guilty of this many times.

Also, out of curiosity, the 121-180 par range, is that with a basic cool white/royal blue led fixture?

 

[joshporksandwich]

I apologize for coming down hard on you about this. The 'blind luck' term that I used insults your talent for the hobby. You're obviously a smart dude, and reading a few scientific papers or advanced aquarist doesnt make us any smarter. There are different levels of understanding and approaching this hobby. There is no doubt that people can outsmart themselves with a theory that has some basis in science, just to have it not translate to the reef very well. I've been guilty of this many times.

Also, out of curiosity, the 121-180 par range, is that with a basic cool white/royal blue led fixture?

In my frag tank I use both whites and blues for 8 hours and it gives me around 200 in the middle 150 close to the middle and around 100 in the outer area. 1 onyx, 1 cheap chinese box and 1 unknown traded for zoas. My main tank I use whites for 3-4 hours and blues for 8. all lights are at 100%. New 220g tank I'm using 4 onyx and 2 t5 retro. No par reading yet.

 

[Saltwater gardens]

do you have a full tank shot?


well it would be hard to pinpoint it exactly but the polyps that are open are healthy although not 100% , i assume youv'e did the search for zoanthid nudibranchs and other pests ?

a bit about the system itself , background, what it contains and how its maintanance would help diagnose your issue for sure

looks to be some lps in the back ground , how are they doing?

Here is a full tank shot

Parameters of the tank

Age: 7 months
Ca: 420 ppm
Mg: 1320 ppm
Alk: 2.9 meq/l
Temperature: 25 - 27 celsius
Density: 1.025
Tank: 180 cm large x 60 cm width x 30 cm height + sump = 300 liters
Water movement: flow eductor (24 hours on), and one power head of 1,400 liters per hour (10 hours on).
Filtration: Reef octopus BH-90, socks of 200 micron, mangroves, live rock (25 kg aprox.), and scrubber (photoperiod of 10 hours).
Lighting: Radion XR30w pro at 75% of light intensity and 55 cm away from water surface (tank depth: 30 cm), plus they get some natural sunlight.
Schedule lamp: 2 hours of 20,000 K - 6 hours of 14,000 K - 2 hours of 20,000 K
PAR during the day:
7:00 - 7:30 - 4
7:30 - 8:00 - 10
8:00 - 8:30 - 11
8:30 - 9:00 - 22
9:00 - 9:30 - 41
9:30 - 10:00 - 75
10:00 - 10:30 - 89
10:30 - 11:00 - 88
11:00 - 11:30 - 103
11:30 - 12:00 - 114
12:00 - 12:30 - 145
12:30 - 13:00 - 131
13:00 - 13:30 - 135
13:30 - 14:00 - 131
14:00 - 14:30 - 125
14:30 - 15:00 - 116
15:00 - 15:30 - 117
15:30 - 16:00 - 112
16:00 - 16:30 - 100
16:30 - 17:00 - 88
17:00 - 17:30 - 76
17:30 - 18:00 - 53
18:00 - 18:30 -32
18:30 - 19:00 - 6

Corals:
One sps (Montipora capricornis)
Two lps (Euphyllia parancora and Caulastrea furcata)
Soft corals (Clavularia sp, Discosoma sp, Actinodiscus sp, Palythoa sp, Zoanthus sp, Parazoanthus sp)

About pests, I think I have vermited snail. But I dont know if they can affect coral growth and health.

 

[Akwarius]

Looks fine if you're only populating the center 2' of tank space. Otherwise adding another fixture would allow you to use the entire tank.

As for your light schedule, I'm not sure if such a slow ramp up/down is necessary.

 

[Akwarius]

In my frag tank I use both whites and blues for 8 hours and it gives me around 200 in the middle 150 close to the middle and around 100 in the outer area. 1 onyx, 1 cheap chinese box and 1 unknown traded for zoas. My main tank I use whites for 3-4 hours and blues for 8. all lights are at 100%. New 220g tank I'm using 4 onyx and 2 t5 retro. No par reading yet.

Thanks for the details.

Have you noticed any difference in zoa health, growth, or polyp size between the frag tank and main tank?

 

[joshporksandwich]

Thanks for the details.

Have you noticed any difference in zoa health, growth, or polyp size between the frag tank and main tank?

Yes everything in main tank is awesome lol. Frag tank I would give it a 7 out of 10. Main tank 10. In my tank they look nicer and healthier. In my frag tank not as nice but they grow a lot faster. I do not understand lol.

 

[reefwars]

nice system for sure , i do believe you can benefit more flow that tank looks to be 8ft and with just the single powerhead on the end ( i assume you mean 1400gph not lph?) i wouldnt count your return as a whole lot of flow even with the eductors on them , if the zoas are on the side wwith the lps on the left then they cant be getting mcuh flow. as well only 10 hrs on?

in my zoanthid beds i keep around 75-100x flowrate

a agree also that such a gradual increase is most likely doing you no benefits and would also look at adding more light that fixture is very high off the tank to get more coverage i presume and the zoas look to be on the edge of what the lights recommended spread is

 

[reefwars]

vermetids will def aggravate but if polyps that arnt getting covered in webs are showing same signs then i wouldn't think they are the cause but arn't helping your case either so yes get rid of those for sure

 

[reefwars]

as well vermetids are more active in less flow

 

[Saltwater gardens]

Looks fine if you're only populating the center 2' of tank space. Otherwise adding another fixture would allow you to use the entire tank.

As for your light schedule, I'm not sure if such a slow ramp up/down is necessary.

I just modified my lamp schedule, I would like to hear your opinion, if it's ok or if I should do a quicker ramp up. Also tomorrow I'll be posting the new PAR values through the day to see how the new schedule works. And of course I'm planning on adding another fixture, but they are kind of expensive here in Cancun. In the mean while, I dont know if you can see, but my tank is next to a window from where I get some natural sunlight that covers the entire tank.

Actual schedule

New shcedule

 

[Saltwater gardens]

nice system for sure , i do believe you can benefit more flow that tank looks to be 8ft and with just the single powerhead on the end ( i assume you mean 1400gph not lph?) i wouldnt count your return as a whole lot of flow even with the eductors on them , if the zoas are on the side wwith the lps on the left then they cant be getting mcuh flow. as well only 10 hrs on?

in my zoanthid beds i keep around 75-100x flowrate

a agree also that such a gradual increase is most likely doing you no benefits and would also look at adding more light that fixture is very high off the tank to get more coverage i presume and the zoas look to be on the edge of what the lights recommended spread is

I just posted my new shcedule, and I would like to know what you think about it, if I should do a quicker ramp up of it's ok. Also I did noticed that in the high flow areas ther are less vermited snails, so I'm moving my zoas to a high flow area. And your zoas get direct or not?

 

[reefwars]

schedule seems fine , i would def supplement some more flow to the tank though.

my zoas are in 6ft corals beds with no liverock and the tanks are 12" in height , the racks are about 6" in height so with a 1" waterline im getting about 4-5" of total water i do like to run a fair bit of flow

in each of my 6ft x 24" beds i run a single mp40 (100%reefcrest) and four koralia's 14000 (gph)

here is a video of one of my systems its an older video but give you an idea (excuse the bryopsis at the time lol)

i live and breath zoanthids lol been into the hobby for 12 yrs , into zoanthids for about 8 yrs and collecting hard core and propping for 6

video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAjzOpBc0h0


enjoy