Parameters in check: Corals not happy and nuisance algae

[niQo]

First some information, let me know if I have forgotten anything.

Tank: 32x20x18 - 55 gallons of actual water (40+ in display, rest in the sump)
Bubble Magnus 5 (off for a few hours at night)
Cheato with Kessil H80 (currently removed cheato because of dosing vibrant)
Aquaforest Life Biofil in BRS Reactor with 1/4 cup of Carbon
MP10 (75%)
Nanobox Duo (75% blue / 20% white) - 9 hour light cycle
Tunze ATO

I used new pukani that sat in saltwater for 2 months cycling.

Fish: 7 (between 2-3")

Inverts:
Pistol shrimp
3 Scarlet hermits
Few snails
No noticeable Pod population ( important?)

Corals:
Ricordea: has 4 "babies" some grow well others not very fast
Acan: 3 different frags, all consistently happy, though not much growth at all
Brain: barely holding on
Branching Cypastrea: barely holding on
RBTA: no growth, very shrunken. This could be because it's really small and my clown keeps hosting it.
Duncan: looks happy with some new heads appearing
SPS: one tiny frag left, but STN
Most corals are on the sand bed or close to it.

I use Aquaforest Salt reef salt and ABEV (1/2 dose almost daily)
I feed the fish 1/3 of a cube of Mysis and a 1/3 of a cube of Brine shrimp daily.

Set up 1st of July 2017
Issues:
- STN due to zero NO3 achieved by carbon dosing
- GHA has a foothold, maybe some turf as well.
- corals not thriving. Some look happy, but there is not much growth. I've lost quite a few corals over the last 9 months.

Equipment issue:
Red Sea refractometer seems very inaccurate. From one day to another it will read 3 pt higher even after calibration. This has been a recent discovery (last weekend) and I'm worried I've caused salinity swings from time to time. Now I'm using a Vertex.

Alk: around 7 / have not dosed for many months
Calcium: around 430
Mag: 1500
NO3: 5 (Salifert)
PO4: 0.06 (Hanna)

Thoughts
My corals looked the best when they were transferred from my 12 gallon tank to this one with cycled rock and water. Ever since it's been an on and off struggle.

These are some of the possibilities I can think of or have been suggested to me. I would love to get anyone's thought on this as I'm just at a loss.

Issue: not enough available nutrients for LPS or SPS, but enough for GHA
Solution: add more fish/coral food. Dose more NO3
Worry: increase in algae

Issue: trace element(s) depleted by algae growth
Solution: dosing/waterchanges
Worry: waterchanges appear to have little positive effect. Often for a few days some corals are not happy. Some seemed to have been tipped over the edge right after a waterchange and died. Did a 16 gallon WC last Saturday and things seem okay, except for my final SPS frag started STN soon after.

Issue: contaminant in water due to depletion of DI resin (1 ppm) and using that water for water changes/ATO for a while.
Solution: WC / change carbon
Worry: see above

Issue: Light too strong or not strong enough
Solution: par testing and adjusting accordingly.

Thanks for reading!

 

[glb]

First some information, let me know if I have forgotten anything.

Tank: 32x20x18 - 55 gallons of actual water (40+ in display, rest in the sump)
Bubble Magnus 5 (off for a few hours at night)
Cheato with Kessil H80 (currently removed cheato because of dosing vibrant)
Aquaforest Life Biofil in BRS Reactor with 1/4 cup of Carbon
MP10 (75%)
Nanobox Duo (75% blue / 20% white) - 9 hour light cycle
Tunze ATO

I used new pukani that sat in saltwater for 2 months cycling.

Fish: 7 (between 2-3")

Inverts:
Pistol shrimp
3 Scarlet hermits
Few snails
No noticeable Pod population ( important?)

Corals:
Ricordea: has 4 "babies" some grow well others not very fast
Acan: 3 different frags, all consistently happy, though not much growth at all
Brain: barely holding on
Branching Cypastrea: barely holding on
RBTA: no growth, very shrunken. This could be because it's really small and my clown keeps hosting it.
Duncan: looks happy with some new heads appearing
SPS: one tiny frag left, but STN
Most corals are on the sand bed or close to it.

I use Aquaforest Salt reef salt and ABEV (1/2 dose almost daily)
I feed the fish 1/3 of a cube of Mysis and a 1/3 of a cube of Brine shrimp daily.

Set up 1st of July 2017
Issues:
- STN due to zero NO3 achieved by carbon dosing
- GHA has a foothold, maybe some turf as well.
- corals not thriving. Some look happy, but there is not much growth. I've lost quite a few corals over the last 9 months.

Equipment issue:
Red Sea refractometer seems very inaccurate. From one day to another it will read 3 pt higher even after calibration. This has been a recent discovery (last weekend) and I'm worried I've caused salinity swings from time to time. Now I'm using a Vertex.

Alk: around 7 / have not dosed for many months
Calcium: around 430
Mag: 1500
NO3: 5 (Salifert)
PO4: 0.06 (Hanna)

Thoughts
My corals looked the best when they were transferred from my 12 gallon tank to this one with cycled rock and water. Ever since it's been an on and off struggle.

These are some of the possibilities I can think of or have been suggested to me. I would love to get anyone's thought on this as I'm just at a loss.

Issue: not enough available nutrients for LPS or SPS, but enough for GHA
Solution: add more fish/coral food. Dose more NO3
Worry: increase in algae

Issue: trace element(s) depleted by algae growth
Solution: dosing/waterchanges
Worry: waterchanges appear to have little positive effect. Often for a few days some corals are not happy. Some seemed to have been tipped over the edge right after a waterchange and died. Did a 16 gallon WC last Saturday and things seem okay, except for my final SPS frag started STN soon after.

Issue: contaminant in water due to depletion of DI resin (1 ppm) and using that water for water changes/ATO for a while.
Solution: WC / change carbon
Worry: see above

Issue: Light too strong or not strong enough
Solution: par testing and adjusting accordingly.

Thanks for reading!

The phosphates could be contributing to the algae. Also, 9 hours for the lights might be too long, also contributing to GHA. Have you made a lot of changes lately with the tank? Sometimes fiddling too much can make things worse. Carbon dosing works better with nitrates than phosphates. You could decrease it and maybe throw in a bag of GFO to help with phosphates. Do you feed the corals? As long as you have good nutrient export, the water quality should stay good. Hope this helps!

 

[niQo]

The phosphates could be contributing to the algae. Also, 9 hours for the lights might be too long, also contributing to GHA. Have you made a lot of changes lately with the tank? Sometimes fiddling too much can make things worse. Carbon dosing works better with nitrates than phosphates. You could decrease it and maybe throw in a bag of GFO to help with phosphates. Do you feed the corals? As long as you have good nutrient export, the water quality should stay good. Hope this helps!

Yes, the PO4 could be contributing to the GHA. I've been trying to avoid using GFO. I could decrease the light cycle for sure. I have not made many changes at all over the last year, although I know conditions have not necessarily been stable. I did go skimmer less for a while after dosing ChemiClean, but now I'm running the skimmer again. I've never lasted long with Carbon Dosing as the results turned negative quickly and so I haven't done any for more than 6 months

I feed the corals with some drops of AF Photo Mix and AF Energy and I do not rinse my frozen food. I feed some of my acans/duncans some mysis/brine. These are the corals that do well comparatively

 

[laverda]

You phophate and nitrate are not very high. Do you have a refugium or ATS? In my experience a simple ATS with a red and blue LED grow light will out compete the gha in the tank. Do you have any herbavours in the tank?
Check your water for chlorimines.

 

[niQo]

You phophate and nitrate are not very high. Do you have a refugium or ATS? In my experience a simple ATS with a red and blue LED grow light will out compete the gha in the tank. Do you have any herbavours in the tank?
Check your water for chlorimines.

Thanks for the response. Yes, I do have a refugium with H80 Kessil, but currently I have removed the cheats due to Vibrant treatment (it was dying). ATS is definitely an option. None of my fish is interested in the GHA, my snails don't seem very interested either, but I think they do eat some.

Could I still have Chloramines when my water is 0 PPM?

 

[laverda]

Thanks for the response. Yes, I do have a refugium with H80 Kessil, but currently I have removed the cheats due to Vibrant treatment (it was dying). ATS is definitely an option. None of my fish is interested in the GHA, my snails don't seem very interested either, but I think they do eat some.

Could I still have Chloramines when my water is 0 PPM?

I personaly don't think much of the kessil lights. I use red and blue LED grow lights. I get great growth on my ATSs, mangroves, cheeto and othe algaes. Since the growth is optimal where I want it I have no algae in my display tank.
Yes uou can still have chlorimines with zero TDS. Water districts change were they get their water from time to time. How the treat and the mix of waters they supply. I had chlorime issues when I first moved to my new house 4 years ago. Recently I have high CO2 in the water depleting my DI rsen very quickly. I suspect the water district switched to well water, or at least a higher ratio of well water. It could be temporary or permanent.

 

[niQo]

I personaly don't think much of the kessil lights. I use red and blue LED grow lights. I get great growth on my ATSs, mangroves, cheeto and othe algaes. Since the growth is optimal where I want it I have no algae in my display tank.
Yes uou can still have chlorimines with zero TDS. Water districts change were they get their water from time to time. How the treat and the mix of waters they supply. I had chlorime issues when I first moved to my new house 4 years ago. Recently I have high CO2 in the water depleting my DI rsen very quickly. I suspect the water district switched to well water, or at least a higher ratio of well water. It could be temporary or permanent.

After shutting off my skimmer for a few weeks the Kessil grew Cheato crazy fast! Unfortunately it may not be powerful enough to out compete the display lights.

I can check the chloramines, but another reefer living really close to me does not have the same issues as me, so it seems unlikely to me.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

First some information, let me know if I have forgotten anything.

In the future, put the question first. That way folks do not need to read a novel without knowing what to look for.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

These are some of the possibilities I can think of or have been suggested to me. I would love to get anyone's thought on this as I'm just at a loss.

Issue: not enough available nutrients for LPS or SPS, but enough for GHA
Solution: add more fish/coral food. Dose more NO3
Worry: increase in algae

I don't think it is generally true that if GHA is thriving, that hard corals do not have enough available N and /or P. If your test results (5 ppm nitrate and 0.06 ppm phosphate) are accurate, then it definitely is not true.

I wouldn't focus on feeding more or nitrate dosing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Red Sea refractometer seems very inaccurate. From one day to another it will read 3 pt higher even after calibration. This has been a recent discovery (last weekend) and I'm worried I've caused salinity swings from time to time. Now I'm using a Vertex.

That means it needs to be recalibrated each use? And when recalibration it is off by as much as 3 ppt?

That might mean the calibration screw is loose (not much you can do about that, as far as I know).

The Vertex is a refractometer? How are you calibrating it?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Issue: trace element(s) depleted by algae growth
Solution: dosing/waterchanges
Worry: waterchanges appear to have little positive effect. Often for a few days some corals are not happy. Some seemed to have been tipped over the edge right after a waterchange and died. Did a 16 gallon WC last Saturday and things seem okay, except for my final SPS frag started STN soon after.
!

Possible, but not super likely. A combination trace element supplement might easily test this idea.

Perhaps more likely is a trace element too hgih. Tin, nickel, etc., that bothers corals. That can come from metal parts in the water, corroding above the water, in the RO/DI, tin from the glass itself, etc.

You might consider an ICP test from a reputable company like ATI or Triton.

 

[niQo]

In the future, put the question first. That way folks do not need to read a novel without knowing what to look for.

Fair enough, although I thought my title is a good summarized version of my issue, other than it's not phrased as a question

I'll see if I can change it later. Not only do I need to learn how to reef, but also how to use a forum

 

[niQo]

That means it needs to be recalibrated each use? And when recalibration it is off by as much as 3 ppt?

That might mean the calibration screw is loose (not much you can do about that, as far as I know).

The Vertex is a refractometer? How are you calibrating it?

I calibrated the Red Sea refractometer to 1.026 (with 1.026 fluid) then my tank water read 1.021. The next day I recalibrate the refractometer to 1.026 again, but my tank water read 1.024. Even though nothing had changed in my tank. From reading online it seems I'm not the only one with this issue.

I did the same thing with the Vertex refractometer the same time I did the Red Sea Refractometer. I calibrated it to 1.026 and then took a reading two days in a row and it was more consistent: 1.025 and 1.0245. This leads me to thing the Vertex refractometer is more consistent and reliable.

Possible, but not super likely. A combination trace element supplement might easily test this idea.

Perhaps more likely is a trace element too hgih. Tin, nickel, etc., that bothers corals. That can come from metal parts in the water, corroding above the water, in the RO/DI, tin from the glass itself, etc.

You might consider an ICP test from a reputable company like ATI or Triton.

Thanks, that's helpful. I've been considering ICP to rule out some more variables.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Fair enough, although I thought my title is a good summarized version of my issue, other than it's not phrased as a question

I'll see if I can change it later. Not only do I need to learn how to reef, but also how to use a forum

No problem and no need to change it.

FWIW, this is sticked at the chemistry page top:

Tips on how to ask questions!
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tips-on-how-to-ask-questions.364097/

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I calibrated the Red Sea refractometer to 1.026 (with 1.026 fluid) then my tank water read 1.021. The next day I recalibrate the refractometer to 1.026 again, but my tank water read 1.024. Even though nothing had changed in my tank. From reading online it seems I'm not the only one with this issue.

I did the same thing with the Vertex refractometer the same time I did the Red Sea Refractometer. I calibrated it to 1.026 and then took a reading two days in a row and it was more consistent: 1.025 and 1.0245. This leads me to thing the Vertex refractometer is more consistent and reliable.



Thanks, that's helpful. I've been considering ICP to rule out some more variables.

OK, I'm not sure why the one refractometer would have an issue if it was calibrated just before use, unless it was a temperature issue. Bear in mind that if the tank is not controlled at an exact water level, salinity will change with evaporation.

 

[niQo]

No problem and no need to change it.

FWIW, this is sticked at the chemistry page top:

Tips on how to ask questions!
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tips-on-how-to-ask-questions.364097/

Thanks for the link!

OK, I'm not sure why the one refractometer would have an issue if it was calibrated just before use, unless it was a temperature issue. Bear in mind that if the tank is not controlled at an exact water level, salinity will change with evaporation.

The tank has a Tunze Osmolator, so there is no way the salinity would have jumped 3 pts.

 

[psl123]

As far as salinity is concerned, why not purchase a digital device to read your salinity. I like the fact with digital there is no need to "read" the instrument.

 

[MartinWaite]

I have heard of others having g similar problems with the Red Sea refractormeter before.
I agree with Randy that your best bet is to get an ICP water test done I'm not sure about the USA but in the UK the ATI ICP includes a RO water check as a part of the ICP so you know that your water is good before going into the tank.

 

[niQo]

As far as salinity is concerned, why not purchase a digital device to read your salinity. I like the fact with digital there is no need to "read" the instrument.

I considered that a while back. However, even those are not without complaints either.

A few days ago I re-calibrated both refractometers again and than used some tank water: the Red Sea was now reading higher again. (1.026) So it's gone up 5 pts and the Vertex has been within 1 pt the whole time and the salinity in my system must have been fairly stable with the ATO and very dry skimming.

 

[Oshengems]

How are you calibrating your refractormeter? And how old is it? I just posted something I regards to the effect of high salt levels on corals and faulty equipment also calibrating mine with destile water vs calibration liquid was off by almost 4 point so head you think is 35ppm or 1.026 is actually 40ppm