Parameters of newly established reef

TroyMusil

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My reef tank is less then a month old. Here are the parameters as of today. How does this look??
16 gallon nano reef with 9 small corals, 3 fish, and few CUC.
Fiji live sand and cultured live rock to start.
feedback greatly appreciated!! ✌️

782BD10A-690A-45E3-B82E-F7F05DCDEED5.jpeg
 
An ammonia reading of 0.5ppm (should be less than 0.1 and ideally 0) is highly toxic to fish, has the tank cycled fully ?

I would potentially look at maybe an ammonia binding agent or if easier immediate water changes
 
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This reef has ammonia under control, so it’s in the thousandths ppm

the tester you used to make the ammonia assessment cant read low levels accurately. Once a picture of the tank is posted, we will list five reasons the tank is at .00x ppm free ammonia

helpful hint for reef tank ammonia issue tracing: no reef display tank on this site has ammonia control issues, even the ones listed as cycling reefs. They’ve used bottle bac that instantly control ammonia and free ammonia doesn’t hit tenths ppm and remain there, ever, not in any reef tank ever made (or accurately tested)

the other params can vary tank to tank, but not ammonia given some very specific clues in the description. Post full tank shot
 
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Pending pics we'll link your thread to page one of the microbiology of reef tank cycling, time for some new false ammonia proofs

SPR agreed it is highly toxic, untenable in fact. Yet its tending per description. Your inclination is spot on, and in fact more accurate than api/Red Sea and even salifert...there are .25 reports for salifert yet .25 doesn’t occur in reefing, or .5
 
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We've been told years that ammonia control varies tank to tank.


rascal rule makers, it doesn't work that way at all. We either have enough surface area for a given bioload and it runs at the same conversion rates any other reef runs, or we‘re lacking surface area and the reef crashes overnite due to ammonia compounding.
Seneye called all ammonia/ surface area rule makers to task.

The number one thing to do here: enjoy your fully cycled reef. Don't buy bottle bac, you've no condition requiring it

Part of my life goal in reefing is to return trust to the standard 30 day cycling chart, written probably somewhere around 1940 ish it was not invented by Google
 
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post full tank shot. Let’s list the five reasons and then see if pics line up for proofing:

1. no reef tank has trouble controlling ammonia at day 30. You’re past the universal completion date. if the rock you mentioned is cured, then you controlled ammonia as you do now, on day 1 (or nobody could start reef conventions on time, all tanks have to show up 50 days early I guess?)
2. uncycled reefs kill the animals in a few days or overnite. 20 sacrifical snails and dry rocks and a few gallons of saltwater in a bucket will reveal what starting before cycle completion causes. Cycle the rocks, re add 20 more ceriths, they live. Stark difference.
3. there are no partial, or stuck cycles, in the presence of rocks and sand/common display tank. Bottle bac sellers wrote the rule of stalled cycles, and as a result we bought lots of redundant bottle bac. They wrote the rule before seneye, and now are rather silent lol on rule updates post-seneye. Quarantine tanks or low surface area systems can fail to control ammonia.
4. fish that are being burned by ammonia act that way. Then they die, over nite.
5. lack of ammonia control in the presence of living delicate bioload and daily feeding for fish you’ve had in place results in water clouding, always, and then death. From your tank pics we get an idea of impending doom, or not.

youve been feeding this reef, plus all that bioload, cured rocks and 30 days.

ghost rule#6 nitrite and nitrite don’t factor in 2020 cycling science. Proof: Macna conventions all starting on a given date, without variance. They haven’t all lined up all three params perfectly by Friday, they online align for ammonia, then begin reefing at the convention in a one day setup.

this reef tank by the OP differs from the ten thousand MACNA insta reefs by zero percent, it’s the same. It’s number ten thousand and one insta reef, just at his home. he would be describing negative tank conditions not just a number typed into an app if ammonia wasn’t under control.

for fun and irony, compare anything I’ve typed to Macna videos on cycling, they state polar opposite set of rules. the irony is how we get told cycles can stall and what to buy or change to coax them into action, and the video is made in a convention hall of 500 reefs that didn’t have trouble stalling $$



pics seal the deal even if three other non seneye test confirm ammonia in the tenths ppm on day 40. Max # days to total ammonia control shown below and doesn’t range no matter which site shows the chart variation. 100% of cycles have ammonia control in place before twenty days. I’m glad api wasn’t used to make this chart.
CA8F902B-04F3-49C6-80A1-52BE7DA5979A.gif
 
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Troy

dont let ammonia geeking dissuade you from posting :)

your post matters because if reefs still vary after a month on ammonia control, we can’t clean them reliably, or move them reliably once set in place and in many cases we are not free to act on invasions that could take over the tank. Truly what free ammonia does sets our care boundaries across the board...that’s why it’s worth it to detail every free ammonia reading


Got any full tank shots
 
Troy

dont let ammonia geeking dissuade you from posting :)

your post matters because if reefs still vary after a month on ammonia control, we can’t clean them reliably, or move them reliably once set in place and in many cases we are not free to act on invasions that could take over the tank. Truly what free ammonia does sets our care boundaries across the board...that’s why it’s worth it to detail every free ammonia reading


Got any full tank shots
Thanks for the reply! The ammonia levels were zero for first week, into second week just became detectable last week only
What are you testing with? Ammonia should be undetectable, nitrite should be 0, alk should be lower 8-9ish, cal should probably be high 400-450ish. Looks like your still cycling.

I use the AP test kits. Seems hard to get accurate readings though. You think that will kill my fish and corals?
I will keep posted with updated tests and info. Thanks for the help.
 
An ammonia reading of 0.5ppm (should be less than 0.1 and ideally 0) is highly toxic to fish, has the tank cycled fully ?

I would potentially look at maybe an ammonia binding agent or if easier immediate water changes
Pretty sure I did the classic not waiting for it to cycle. I have all Beginner, easy to care for fish. So I hope they can tough it out. They seem super happy and very active and feeding good so I just hope I don’t come across total system failure.
 
Pending pics we'll link your thread to page one of the microbiology of reef tank cycling, time for some new false ammonia proofs

SPR agreed it is highly toxic, untenable in fact. Yet its tending per description. Your inclination is spot on, and in fact more accurate than api/Red Sea and even salifert...there are .25 reports for salifert yet .25 doesn’t occur in reefing, or .5
I did use a photoplankton (butchered that word) micro organism booster when I first started the tank. I will keep it posted with how the residents of my reef are as well as parameters. Thank you!

C015FCC9-7959-452D-8AC6-23754C3671A2.jpeg
 
Corals I have and full shot of aquarium

287AA88D-1C10-447B-BA3E-4D8C0D7B78A3.jpeg 6CF0C32A-A9F5-4DE6-81F8-E3B842E3294A.jpeg F2A09641-0F59-4652-BBBC-6F152C62F5F3.jpeg
 
Looks great, open corals all happy. That rock is mind-boggling pre cured. It is the best example of group B rock I’ve seen in a couple years. Your tank is now first group B example in our testless cycling thread, nice one. (In discussing different cycling rules for live vs dry rocks, we assessed group A as dry rock/requires cycling time vs group B, shows up cycled and needs no help nor cycle time. A third group of rocks is uncured but live, those leak ammonia a while and dont require bottle bac, they’re the highest bac diversity rocks of all-TBS shipped rock is one example)
*even tbs live rock still curing out cannot produce .25 or .5 sustained free ammonia. It doesn’t occur in reefing. Ammonia tested accurately is a peak then a trough with no flatline.

#7 open corals vs closed tightly, indicating total pain. :)
 
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Ok there u go


ur cycled due to 25 pages of your type of reefs. Look at this stack of group b rocks from my lfs


from this vat, the reefbowl was skip cycle built and probably forty other tanks in my city. Your rocks look similar due to universal (and predictable) benthic clues that most aged rock will show.
45A4EB0B-CAFC-4BA2-A3E6-2AE0668A624E.jpeg
 
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Looks great, open corals all happy. That rock is mind-boggling pre cured. It is the best example of group B rock I’ve seen in a couple years. Your tank is now first group B example in our testless cycling thread, nice one. (In discussing different cycling rules for live vs dry rocks, we assessed group A as dry rock/requires cycling time vs group B, shows up cycled and needs no help nor cycle time. A third group of rocks is uncured but live, those leak ammonia a while and dont require bottle bac, they’re the highest bac diversity rocks of all-TBS shipped rock is one example)


#7 open corals vs closed tightly, indicating total pain. :)
Very interesting! Thank you for the information and feedback. I will happily keep you all posted and updated with how this tank comes along. I have had aquariums all my life, but this is first reef. So all this info and feedback is great. Honestly they all seem so happy so would hate to have a system crash! time will tell. Thanks again!
 
Ammonia will never drift out of spec as long as water is in the reef, even if you lose a fish internally it will still not drift out of spec. That’s the ability of real rock and sand, reliable. You can retire ammonia and nitrite testing forever on this system, I myself refuse to own an ammonia kit it would make my friends think I doubt it’s fully predictable action.

if detritus builds up in the sand and gets disturbed that can briefly spike, so in our testless setups we just clean them occasionally vs store up filth like 1998.
 
Ammonia will never drift out of spec as long as water is in the reef, even if you lose a fish internally it will still not drift out of spec. That’s the ability of real rock and sand, reliable. You can retire ammonia and nitrite testing forever on this system, I myself refuse to own an ammonia kit it would make my friends think I doubt it’s fully predictable action.

if detritus builds up in the sand and gets disturbed that can briefly spike, so in our testless setups we just clean them occasionally vs store up filth like 1998.
I love the idea of a complete community. I specialize in community aquariums. I love the idea of natural cleaners I the reef. I have two hermit crabs, two turbo snails, and two peppermint shrimp as my maintenance crew. I will also get a sand sifting starfish to help clean the sand.
 
One key detail for nanos which isn’t impactful now but will be

all sandbed animals contribute to detritus loading they don’t clean. The only thing that cleans is physical/ mechanical cleaning of sand, actual waste removal from the aquarium. Sandbed creatures produce whole waste pellets/ add to load


sandbed rinsing / actual cleaning of the bed is one way to occasionally clean

and in other arrangements fish are active enough to clean


there are older approaches where the sand is never cleaned, I can’t recommend that approach. You are long past the uglies phase that rock might be two hundred years old...when green hair algae comes due to new tank + bioload + bright lights it’s not because your tank is new and should be allowed or waited out.

You can keep the algae from that tank by manually cleaning it out, don’t wait for an animal to do it they rarely keep up. Your challenge is to keep the system looking balanced above, not packed with algae. You can make it that way with resolve and action, vs waiting and allowed takeover. Your algae challenge/fork in the road choice will start by about August predictably. Your choice is to either keep the look of the system by requirement and practice, for all its days, or take no action and accept months of ‘down’ phases regarding hair algae brush algae and cyano.

invasive dinos are unlikely in your system, the live rock has likely powerful micro life forms to fight dinos naturally.


when you get the push to add something to the water due to algae, or change a water parameter to starve it, just know thats the wrong path. It’s my opinion cycle authors who believe in stalled cycles also wrote the rules for us to follow regarding new tank algae 25 years ago. They want you to self invade, so you’ll buy an offset. Buck all their rules and choose smart investment control


message me if you ever get algae that seems unbeatable, it will be beaten in 48 hours made like your tank looks above (rip clean, from the thread)

the ammonia reading for the system above would register on a working seneye machine in the thousandths ppm, we can tell by pic details.
 
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Yes I should of worded that better, cleaner crew to kinda help but definitely regular physical maintenance additionally. With that in mind I may pass on the starfish just for the sake of bioload for the long run. They are kinda big for my nano.
 
video of my baby reef.
 

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