Parasite ID: Ich, Velvet, or ???

[PeterG]

I removed all my fish from the DT and placed them into QT on Sunday.

Start of saga here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-died-what-to-do-now.344831/

More detailed follow-up here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-dying-followup.345561/

Last night I noticed some white spots on the inside of the glass on the DT. They appeared to be moving so I shut off the return pump and powerheads and waited for the water to become still. I then took these photos. Can someone please tell me if these little guys are Ich, Velvet or is my DT infested with something else?
Is there anything I should do about this or will these die off with no fish to feed on?
The DT currently is populated with snails, hermits, a peppermint shrimp, a serpent star and assorted LPS, SPS and softies.
Bottom shot is tighter crop.

 

[Crabs McJones]

I removed all my fish from the DT and placed them into QT on Sunday.

Start of saga here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-died-what-to-do-now.344831/

More detailed follow-up here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-dying-followup.345561/

Last night I noticed some white spots on the inside of the glass on the DT. They appeared to be moving so I shut off the return pump and powerheads and waited for the water to become still. I then took these photos. Can someone please tell me if these little guys are Ich, Velvet or is my DT infested with something else?
Is there anything I should do about this? The DT currently is populated with snails, hermits, a peppermint shrimp, a serpent star and assorted LPS, SPS and softies.
Bottom shot is tighter crop.

They appear to be pods. Whether it be copepods or amphipods I can't tell, but most likly pods

 

[4FordFamily]

They appear to be pods. Whether it be copepods or amphipods I can't tell, but most likly pods

Agreed, these are not fish parasites

You get a bloom of these in relatively newly set-up systems.

 

[Big G]

Here's a great link where you can take a closer look at what may be in your tank. Probably Amphipods as Crabs mentioned. https://www.lionfishlair.com/hitchhikers-guide/

 

[PeterG]

Thanks guys for the prompt ID on these things. My initial reaction was "Oh S*#T" Now what! But after looking at Big G's link to Lionfishlair.com it appears most of these pods are either harmless or beneficial to to the tank.
Clicking thru on the Copepod on Lionfish's site for a closer look, I think they are most likely what I've got.
4Ford, you are correct, my DT is only about four months old.
So do I need to do anything or will they go away on their own. They are kind of unsightly on the glass. No detailed info on Lionfish site about where they come from or if they'll attach to fish once I repopulate the tank.

 

[Sorcha2]

Thanks guys for the prompt ID on these things. My initial reaction was "Oh S*#T" Now what! But after looking at Big G's link to Lionfishlair.com it appears most of these pods are either harmless or beneficial to to the tank.
Clicking thru on the Copepod on Lionfish's site for a closer look, I think they are most likely what I've got.
4Ford, you are correct, my DT is only about four months old.
So do I need to do anything or will they go away on their own. They are kind of unsightly on the glass. No detailed info on Lionfish site about where they come from or if they'll attach to fish once I repopulate the tank.

Pods are good. You want pods. The fish will snack on them.

 

[Maritimer]

So do I need to do anything or will they go away on their own. They are kind of unsightly on the glass. No detailed info on Lionfish site about where they come from or if they'll attach to fish once I repopulate the tank.

They'll consume whatever allowed, in its abundance, their population to bloom, and settle into more reasonable numbers. They've no desire to attach to your fish, but your fish may express great desire for copepods as a food source. It'll work out, without any interference from you.

Ich and velvet are invisible to the naked eye at all stages. What you see on the fish are reactions and mucus buildup at the insertion points of the parasites.

~Bruce

 

[PeterG]

Pods are good. You want pods. The fish will snack on them.

They'll consume whatever allowed, in its abundance, their population to bloom, and settle into more reasonable numbers. They've no desire to attach to your fish, but your fish may express great desire for copepods as a food source. It'll work out, without any interference from you.

Ich and velvet are invisible to the naked eye at all stages. What you see on the fish are reactions and mucus buildup at the insertion points of the parasites.

~Bruce

Thanks guys. I'll leave those pods to do their thing as it will be quite some time before it's safe to reintroduce fish to the tank. March 10th by my count.
Is there any way to determine if it was Ich or Velvet that infected my fish?

 

[Sorcha2]

Thanks guys. I'll leave those pods to do their thing as it will be quite some time before it's safe to reintroduce fish to the tank. March 10th by my count.
Is there any way to determine if it was Ich or Velvet that infected my fish?

Depending on where you are at I know there are some LFS that do complementary autopsies if you have a dead fish. It's not very common but I know of one that does it in the st. Louis area.

 

[PeterG]

Depending on where you are at I know there are some LFS that do complementary autopsies if you have a dead fish. It's not very common but I know of one that does it in the st. Louis area.

I'm in SW Florida. Hadn't thought of that but I've already disposed of the fish

 

[Maritimer]

Is there any way to determine if it was Ich or Velvet that infected my fish?

Without good images of the fish, there's not really any way we can do more than venture an educated guess.

Ich generally manifests as a white speckling of slightly ovoid spots that can look like a sprinkling of salt.

Velvet sometimes shows no physical symptoms at all, but even then may be revealed by the fish becoming sensitive to light or by their swimming into the flow of a powerhead. When spots do appear, they're much smaller and more numerous, as though sugar had been spilled, and round, rather than ovoid. Velvet can sometimes appear as a soft golden sheen across the fish, as well.

Ich generally takes a week or a bit more to kill a fish, velvet may only give you a couple of days - if that - before wiping your tank.

~Bruce

 

[PeterG]

Without good images of the fish, there's not really any way we can do more than venture an educated guess.

Ich generally manifests as a white speckling of slightly ovoid spots that can look like a sprinkling of salt.

Velvet sometimes shows no physical symptoms at all, but even then may be revealed by the fish becoming sensitive to light or by their swimming into the flow of a powerhead. When spots do appear, they're much smaller and more numerous, as though sugar had been spilled, and round, rather than ovoid. Velvet can sometimes appear as a soft golden sheen across the fish, as well.

Ich generally takes a week or a bit more to kill a fish, velvet may only give you a couple of days - if that - before wiping your tank.

~Bruce

Bruce, I've got some images of both survivors and some who didn't. I'll try to get them posted up here tomorrow.
Maybe they'll help.

 

[PeterG]

Finally got a chance to go thru some photos. Hopefully they'll offer up some clues.
I lost six fish and so far five are alive and seem to be doing better. Eating some Mysis shrimp & pellets soaked in Selcon & Vita Chem. Finally got QT copper levels to .5mg and ammonia badge shows OK.
OK, here's the shots:

Firefish placed in QT on 12/24. The photo on the left was taken on 12/26. Reddish bruising clearly visible. On 12/28. while still visible the bruising has faded; this AM it is almost gone.

Taken 12/25 not a great shot but you can see damage to fins. This AM fins look better

Coral Beauty put in QT 12/24. At first I thought he was doing good, then his swimming became erratic and he was listing a bit. Found him dead the next AM

Found this clown dead in tank on 12/24. I had odserved him and his mate behaving "differently" and hanging out other than in their regular corner. Have not found the other clown, even after removing all rock and sifting thru sand. Not on floor either.

THis cardinal was missing for a day or so before I made decision to set up QT. Found her after removing rock. No sign of her mate.

 

[Maritimer]

These photos do make a difference.

The internal bruising on the firefish and the fin-loss on all save the clownfish look more like the work of a bacterial illness than either ich or velvet. Another possibility would be flukes - did you happen to perform a freshwater dip on any of the fish, whether surviving or not?

The fin damage to the clown doesn't look bacterial - that looks more like a nip.

~Bruce

 

[PeterG]

These photos do make a difference.

The internal bruising on the firefish and the fin-loss on all save the clownfish look more like the work of a bacterial illness than either ich or velvet. Another possibility would be flukes - did you happen to perform a freshwater dip on any of the fish, whether surviving or not?

The fin damage to the clown doesn't look bacterial - that looks more like a nip.

~Bruce

Yes, I did i dipped each fish in RO/Di water for about 5-7 minutes and then into a bath Ruby Reef Rally for approx 75 min as per one of the suggestions, maybe yours.
I've had postings on three different threads (Links to other two above) and I imagine it's hard to keep track of everything. My initial post came after two tangs died within 24 hrs of each other 10 days after being introduced to the DT (no QT). A number of theories but impossible to know for sure and I just crossed my fingers. After a few days started noticing behavior issues on my other fish, eventually leading me to the above steps and a QT. DT is now fallow 7 days and QT is at therapeutic copper levels for 4-5. Figuring the DT had to stay fallow for 76 days I did not note the exact date my copper level reached therapeutic level.
How to proceed going forward?

 

[Maritimer]

Did you see anything come off the fish during the freshwater dip? Would have resembled sesame seeds . . .

If your remaining fish are improving, hold the course for now. Keep them in copper for 14 days if transferring to a new, clean QT, and for 30 days if they're to remain in the same tank. Keep an eye on the ammonia levels, and watch for any other symptoms to crop up.

Good luck be with you . . .

~Bruce, hoping the worst is past

 

[PeterG]

Did you see anything come off the fish during the freshwater dip? Would have resembled sesame seeds . . .

If your remaining fish are improving, hold the course for now. Keep them in copper for 14 days if transferring to a new, clean QT, and for 30 days if they're to remain in the same tank. Keep an eye on the ammonia levels, and watch for any other symptoms to crop up.

Good luck be with you . . .

~Bruce, hoping the worst is past

Thanks Bruce,
They seem to be holding their own. No one is jumping for their food but they are grazing as lies on the bottom. Seachem ammonia badge still shows OK (yellow center). Just added Instant Ocean Bio-Spira bacteria.
Don't have another QT tank so these fish will remain for the full 30 days. After the 30 days are up can I put them back in the DT or should I still keep that fallow for the full 76 days?
Thanks for all your help and have a Happy & Healthy 2018

 

[Maritimer]

Since we don't really know what's lurking in your DT's liverock, and none of the things you've got going on is mutually exclusive with ich (i.e., you could have both), 76 days wouldn't be a bad idea.

Thank you, and a happy and healthy to you, your family - and your finny friends!

~Bruce