Particles always - 380g

vetteguy53081 · Apr 25, 2023

PaulieReef said:
Tanks been running for a solid 8+ months would that still be an issue? I did wash the sand pretty good but prolly not perfect. Did like you do with rice. Rinse dump until water is clear.

I run gyres and they dont cause this but will pick up suspended matter and send them flowing. My suspicion is some dweller on bottom stirring things up or matter in your sump being directed to return pump and distributed to tank.
One process of elimination to assure what the source may be-
- Turn off gyre and see if the particles are still seen. If so, its not the gyre.

- Turn off return pump, and see if the particles are still present, If so, not the return pump picking up sediment and so forth

PaulieReef · Apr 25, 2023

Reef. said:
Surprised with that size tank and all those tangs you are not using a filter roller, you would definitely see a marked difference.

Carbon is not going to remove visible sized particles, socks are good but they only work for a short period, a 200 micron sock will obviously let everything through that is smaller than 200m, these particles will be very visible, the sock only becomes effective as the holes in the sock become clogged, the sock then starts to trap smaller and smaller sized particles, but again they will be visible until they get down to around 10 or less microns, but by this time your sock will be almost fully blocked and over flowing, so you will effectively not have any water going through the sock at all, using a smaller micron sock will just speed up this process.

Buy a filter roller.

Tried looking for high flow filter rollers, I have 7" filter socks.

Troylee said:
Try cranking your return up.. I run 3500gph on my return with a 275 display. Skimmer pulls some crazy stuff! I’ve always been a fan of high flow sumps myself.

What pumps are you using and pvc pipes that can handle 3500 gph after head pressure? My 2x Varios 6 are rated for 1750 gph each and only reason I dont have it higher is pvc pipes arnt pulling enough.

rocket098 said:
Doesn’t matter the micron ratings so much if you can see the particles you can probably filter it out with a roller or socks. Your 800 gph is not a lot if you think about it. I have observed this issue for a while on the big tanks. You need to create enough flow that any particles approaching the overflow get sucked in. Most tanks with low turn over rate as the particles approach the overflow they end up veering off because the in tank flow is much higher then the overflow flow. Hard to explain this but just observe some of the particles in your tank as they approach the overflow.

Good advice!

o2manyfish · Apr 25, 2023

Start with an easy step. Shut off all your pumps - returns and those in the tank and walk away from the tank for 15-20- mins. Don't worry the fish will be fine. Walk away don't just stare at the tank and wait for something to change. Come back in 15 mins and look at the tank.... Is it clearer?

If it is then you are picking up microbubbles from somewhere. You have a pump that is cavitating, a pump sucking air, a water fall in the skimmer, of a pinhole crack in a plumbing connection.

If the tank still has stuff - hanging in the water column after 15mins then you have ruled out microbubbles and now have excess waste.

With 11 active fish someone is always eating, crapping, and stirring crap up. It will be inevitable there is something floating around in the tank. Ozone, Carbon, UV, Magial Bacterial, Dosing Snake Oil, is not going to remove this because it's constantly being produced/introduced into the water column.

You can minimze how much of it remains in the tank with better mechanical filtration. A Roller mat would be a great starting point. Because it's literally grabbing the crap out of the water column and constantly throwing it away. Pending the turnover rate of the tank thru the Roller mat this can be highly efficient at removing particulates.

Dave B

Reef. · Apr 25, 2023

PaulieReef said:
Tried looking for high flow filter rollers, I have 7" filter socks.

Are you saying a Clarisea can’t match your flow? They are rated to over 1000gph, and your 7 inch sock will not remove the visible particles for the reasons I stated

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Troylee · Apr 25, 2023

Reef. said:
Surprised with that size tank and all those tangs you are not using a filter roller, you would definitely see a marked difference.

Carbon is not going to remove visible sized particles, socks are good but they only work for a short period, a 200 micron sock will obviously let everything through that is smaller than 200m, these particles will be very visible, the sock only becomes effective as the holes in the sock become clogged, the sock then starts to trap smaller and smaller sized particles, but again they will be visible until they get down to around 10 or less microns, but by this time your sock will be almost fully blocked and over flowing, so you will effectively nohave any water going through the sock at all, using a smaller micron sock will just speed up this process.

Buy a filter roller

PaulieReef said:
Tried looking for high flow filter rollers, I have 7" filter socks.

What pumps are you using and pvc pipes that can handle 3500 gph after head pressure? My 2x Varios 6 are rated for 1750 gph each and only reason I dont have it higher is pvc pipes arnt pulling enough.

Good advice!

The largest jaebo they have.. dc15000 and dual 3/4” returns. I run the pump at 100%

PaulieReef · Apr 25, 2023

Troylee said:
The largest jaebo they have.. dc15000 and dual 3/4” returns. I run the pump at 100%

And what is your head pressure? because that pump is 3500 gph at zero head pressure.

Troylee · Apr 25, 2023

About 4ft..with two 90’s I keep my plumbing very minimal and simple.

PaulieReef · Apr 25, 2023

Reef. said:
Are you saying a Clarisea can’t match your flow? They are rated to over 1000gph, and your 7 inch sock will not remove the visible particles for the reasons I stated

Nope, said I couldn't find one. As in one that would fit my sump, have good reviews, or have the correct micron mat.

homer1475 · Apr 25, 2023

I'm thinking it's just slow flow through the sump. 2x turnover is actually quite slow.

I have a 80G cube with 30G sump under tank(roughly 4foot of head, and 85G total system volume). I'm pushing about 500gph(measured at the output of my returns into the tank with a 1G bucket) or 5X the turnover through my sump.

As mentioned above, look at the particles as they go near the overflow. Are they being sucked down, or just swirling and float away?

Rmckoy · Apr 25, 2023

Troylee said:
The largest jaebo they have.. dc15000 and dual 3/4” returns. I run the pump at 100%

They make
A dc20000 im sure

PaulieReef · Apr 25, 2023

So with all the feedback, I took my 2x Varios 6 and upped them from 50% each to 70%. So my flow should have gone from around 800 gph to about 1200 gph, I know its not a big jump post head pressure, but going to make slow changes so I don't flood the house. Don't want 380g of water all over!

Also going to look into some filter sock rollers, it seems like Clarisea has the best reviews, but going to look a lot more.

Appreciate all the help everyone!

Troylee · Apr 25, 2023

Rmckoy said:
They make
A dc20000 im sure

Looks like they do now.. mine the dc15000 max’s out at 3962 gph

rocket098 · Apr 25, 2023

Just a word of caution the clarisea 5000 I have two of them now will flow about half of what they state. So they promise 1300 in reality it’s about 700gph. If you think about it they have the surface area of a 4 inch filter sock so makes sense

gbroadbridge · Apr 25, 2023

PaulieReef said:
No matter what I do, I have massive particles always in my display. I tried the following.

1. Carbon
2. Filter socks 200 micron down to 10 micron
3. Coral Snow

I do not think it’s micro bubbles, only source of micro bubbles is my skimmer and I put a custom filter sock on the outlet to catch all the bubbles. Their are also precautions post skimmer to prevent micro bubbles too.

I feed 3x a day chrome boost both medium and small pellets. Also feed 1 sheet of nori a day.

I thought it could be the auto feed but there is no difference in particles in the morning before a feeding happens and middle of the day after 2 of the 3 feedings.

Info that might help.

4x Gyre - left (350), back(280), back(280), right(350) - gyre more 60%
2x Varios6 Return (50% 8ft head pressure total approx 800 gph for both)

My last resort is going to be ozone, but if carbon doesn’t do anything. Not sure ozone will.

please help

You could try a water polishing filter.

Something like a Vortex XL Diatom filter

I ran mine when I first setup the tank, and maybe once since then.

PaulieReef · Apr 25, 2023

gbroadbridge said:
You could try a water polishing filter.

Something like a Vortex XL Diatom filter

I ran mine when I first setup the tank, and maybe once since then.

Know where I might be able to buy one? Google didn’t have any. If you can’t post a link can you DM?

gbroadbridge · Apr 25, 2023

PaulieReef said:
Know where I might be able to buy one? Google didn’t have any. If you can’t post a link can you DM?

Mine's about 25 years old, but they were still available 5 years ago because I replaced the sock.

Seem to be hard to find now.

This is what you're looking for.