Paying the price for impatience.

[Outlaw]

Hey all, as the title suggests, I think I messed up.

So, about 6 weeks ago, I added a Kole tang to my DT. Problem? I only had it in QT for about 2 weeks. I noticed tonight the presence of what seems to be ich. I noticed my Midas Blenny scratching last night and was hoping for the best... But it was apparently not to be. The only other change was adding an undipped frag from a buddies tank last weekend. All other additions were dipped in Bayer.

Now I need some advice. It's evening here so I can't go anywhere. I am currently testing a 55 that I resealed months ago for leaks.

I do have a bottle of Cupramine but no test kit for copper.

Would it be advisable to remove all fish from the DT (if even possible) and put them in the 55 with Cupramine? I gave a goby that hides with his shrimp, might be hard to get.

Would it be necessary to use RODI (would take all night to make)?

Any advice appreciated.

 

[Humblefish]

Please list all fish in your DT, so we can determine if you have any copper sensitive species.

Also, can you post a pic of the affected fish and the white spots? So we can be sure this in indeed ich you are dealing with.

 

[Aquaph8]

How many fish are talking? Do you have a plan to cycle the 55?

 

[Outlaw]

I have a total of 6 fish in my 75 gal DT. 2 small Ocellaris, 1 pink bar goby, 1 ruby head fairy wrasse, 1 Midas Blenny and the kole tang.

The blenny is scratching but I see nothing. The fairy wrasse has probably 5 cysts by now and the tang has more. I'll see if I can snap a decent pic. Haven't done anything yet, just fed them well.

I have lots of aqua clear and other sponges in the sump I can use for filtration.

 

[Aquaph8]

Awesome that should work and not a huge load either. The wrasse is gonna have a hard time with copper, hypo may be your best option but be careful not to mis-diagnose cause it's a pain to have to slowly bring salinity back up before you can use copper.

 

[Outlaw]

Thanks. Wrasseputin had gone to bed.

 

[Aquaph8]

I'd say your safe with the Ich diagnosis but I've been wrong before. That goby is gonna be hard to catch.

 

[Humblefish]

Outlaw That is ich. And IMO, all of your fish are good candidates for Cupramine treatment.

You will need to catch ALL of your fish, treat them and leave the DT fallow for 72 days.

The 55 will do fine. Do you have an Aquaclear HOB powerfilter you can use on the 55?

 

[Outlaw]

Thanks for the info. Getting that goby will be the hardest part. Yes, I have an AC110 I can use.

 

[rlman41299]

Based on my experience with qt'ing wrasses is that I spread the dose in a 1 week period and let them adjust to it. Currently I am also qt a few fish and running my tank fallow for 10 weeks. I have run the tank fallow for 10 weeks last January and everything turned out okay except for this last 2 weeks when I noticed ich was coming back and affected my regal angel. No new fish added to the tank except for a frag of coral that came from my frag tank that was added to the tank. I am sure that my frag tank has ich for I never qt my fish that are in there and I have seen my purple tang scratch from time to time even tho there is no visible bumps on him. I did not dip the frag I transfered which was a big mistake and re infected my display tank with just a single coral frag that was transferred. It may have brought a free swimming form of the ich and started the cycle again in my display. So here I am again all fish in qt for another 10 weeks.
What I don't know if free swimming parasites can be killed by our coral dip.

 

[Humblefish]

Thanks for the info. Getting that goby will be the hardest part. Yes, I have an AC110 I can use.

Pour one of those bacteria in a bottle products (exs. Bio-Spira, Seachem Stability, Dr Tim's) over the sponge inside the AC110. Also make sure SW is covering the sponge; however DO NOT turn the powerfilter on for about an hour after doing this. This will allow enough time for the nitrifying bacteria to "settle" and move inside the sponge. I also wouldn't add copper for a couple of days, so that the bacteria may begin propagating before the Cu starts to put a dent in your bacteria levels. However, this process should suffice to afford you some biological filtration in QT ... although I would still keep a close tab on the ammonia using a Seachem ammonia alert badge.

What I don't know if free swimming parasites can be killed by our coral dip.

To my knowledge, no experimentation has ever been done. However, free swimmers are minimal risk with corals/inverts - you can wash those away with some of your tank water before placing in the DT. The real threat is tomonts which can encyst upon surfaces for up to 72 days - this includes SPS, coral plugs, exoskeleton of crustaceans, shells of snails/hermit crabs, etc. etc.

 

[rlman41299]

To my knowledge, no experimentation has ever been done. However, free swimmers are minimal risk with corals/inverts - you can wash those away with some of your tank water before placing in the DT. The real threat is tomonts which can encyst upon surfaces for up to 72 days - this includes SPS, coral plugs, exoskeleton of crustaceans, shells of snails/hermit crabs, etc. etc.[/QUOTE]


good to know. I did not even know that they can encyst on corals and inverts. So you are saying that they can encyst on the actual sps? No wonder I got it since I transferred an sps mini colony. Smh

 

[Humblefish]

good to know. I did not even know that they can encyst on corals and inverts. So you are saying that they can encyst on the actual sps? No wonder I got it since I transferred an sps mini colony. Smh

Peter Burgess conducted a series of experiments in 1992, partially to fulfill the requirements for his PhD. He proved that ich tomonts can encyst upon glass, plastic, gravel, metal, wood, and "shell materials" including staghorn corals. Interestingly, he couldn't get tomonts to even attach to an Asteria starfish or a Echinus sea urchin. But I know people who swear they got ich, velvet, brook in their tank from sea urchins. :noidea:

 

[Outlaw]

So nice to get some useable info. Thanks! The other place I posted inflated into a debate about hypo salinity.

 

[Outlaw]

So, my AC110 is currently running on another tank in my office, a 20 gal with 2 ocellaris and a flame prawn goby. Would it be plausible to use this as an established filter (I can still add Tom's if needs be). The filter is overkill for that tank, and the tank won't be up much longer as I have a 40B I moved in there ready to set up. I have another AC50 I can use for the 20 (with all of the media besides the sponge from the 110). Plus there's live rock and sand in there.

 

[Outlaw]

How do you guys feel about the TTM?

 

[Outlaw]

Thinking about the possibility of setting up a used double tank/stand from the LFS for a TTM setup. Would it be possible to do this for all 6 fish in a pair of 20 longs? Maybe with tons of pvc/decorations? Then I could move them to the 55 for the remainder of the fallow period?

 

[Aquaph8]

I would think you'd fine filter wise, just keep an eye on ammonia.

I've used TT and it works but I'm not a big fan. It's a lot of work sterilizing tanks and changing out water and there's just too many variables for failure IMO. It has it's place for certain circumstances but I'll use copper and hypo first if I can. Copper is my go to method but even ramped up slowly it's very hard on wrasses and I've had better luck not using it with them.

 

[Aquaph8]

By the way, great info Humble! What's your take on hypo resistant strains? I've only experienced this once and I could've mid-diagnosed it but ended up using quinine which worked well. Just curious what your thoughts were, hope you don't mind outlaw.

 

[Outlaw]

Not at all.