Pearlscale acting off in QT

[iReefer12]

Had a pair of Pearlscales in QT for 2 weeks now with no issues, eating has been fine and they even pecked off some Aiptasia that was starting to grown in there.

Today one of them is acting off.

* No Appetite
* Lethargic
* Color looks subdued.
* Mouth stays open
* Gills look raised and red.

From my diagnosis this appears to be Ammonia poisoning? The 2 Ammonia badges I have reads zero and have done for the entire 2 weeks. Could this be damage from previous handling that's now showing up!

Or something else?

Anything I can do?

Thanks for any advise.

See the mouth open.

See the color compared to the other one. (The other has tail damage but it was like that when I received him and is slowly getting better.)

The gills appear red and raised from behind.

 

[Humblefish]

That's not ammonia burn; you would see redness on the skin around the gills as well. Also, symptoms of ammonia burn typically appear 2-3 days after exposure - not two weeks.

The gills could look like that from him rubbing (irritation from parasites or worms inside the gills.) Has be been treated with any meds?

 

[iReefer12]

No not treated anything yet as didn't see any signs of illness. I did use NitroFuracin Green on the first day as a precaution.

Gill Flukes maybe? PraziPro time?

 

[Humblefish]

No not treated anything yet as didn't see any signs of illness. I did use NitroFuracin Green on the first day as a precaution.

Gill Flukes maybe? PraziPro time?

Could be flukes or something parasitic (like ich.) How comfortable are you performing a FW dip to confirm the presence of gill flukes?

 

[iReefer12]

Ahhh not totally comfortable, is there instructions somewhere and I can see how I feel when I read them. Just don't want to mess up and lose him

 

[Humblefish]

Ahhh not totally comfortable, is there instructions somewhere and I can see how I feel when I read them. Just don't want to mess up and lose him

See below. I have had the equilibrium issue mentioned under "Cons/Side Effects" with some butterflies and at least one Moorish Idol.

Freshwater Dip: Provides temporary relief for Brooklynella, Flukes, Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly even Ich & Uronema marinum (both unproven). Can be used to confirm the presence of Flukes.

How To Treat - Fill a bucket with RODI water, and use a heater to match the temperature to the water the fish is coming from. Aerate the water heavily for at least 30 minutes prior to doing the dip, then discontinue aeration while performing the dip. Fish aren’t overly pH sensitive for short durations like this, but you can squirt a little tank water into the dip just before the fish goes in to help bring it up.

Place the fish in the freshwater (FW) dip and observe closely. It is not unusual for them to freak out a little at first. Also, tangs are notorious for “playing dead” during a FW dip. The important thing is to watch their gills; they should be breathing heavily at all times during the dip. If breathing slows, it’s time to exit the dip. Dip the fish for no longer than 5 minutes. Multiple dips may be done, but it’s important to give your fish a day to recuperate in-between dips.

For flukes, use a dark (preferably black) bucket so you can see if tiny white worms fall out of the fish (especially out of the gills) at around the 3-4 minute mark. The worms will settle to the bottom, so you can use a flashlight to look for them there as well.

Pros - Provides temporary relief for a wide range of diseases in a chemical free environment. Can “buy you more time” until a proper treatment can be done.

Cons/Side Effects - Not a permanent “fix” for any disease, as FW dips are not potent enough to eradicate all of the parasites/worms afflicting the fish. Some fish can have an adverse reaction to a FW dip by appearing unable to maintain their equilibrium once returned to the aquarium. If this happens, hold the fish upright (using latex, nitrile or rubber gloves), and gently glide him through the water (to get saltwater flowing through the gills again). It is also a good idea to place the fish in an acclimation box until he appears “normal”.

 

[iReefer12]

Well, it's worth a shot, let me try this tomorrow.

 

[iReefer12]

Can you use PH buffer to raise the Ph?

 

[Humblefish]

Can you use PH buffer to raise the Ph?

Yes, but it's tedious trying to figure out how much to use. I've always just squirted a little tank water into the FW dip.

 

[iReefer12]

Just did the FW dip, think it went well, just quite stressful for me more than the fish. Very nervous 5 minutes.

He was in there full 5 mins, he played dead a few times but I tried to startle him to bring him up right and keep swimming. Tried to take him out at the 4 min mark but was hard to catch him so he stayed in there the full 5.

He went back in and swam off without any issues, he looks a bit more energized and looks like he's breathing heavy but it's only been a few mins. In my view he looks slightly better than before, he just looked really lethargic before the dip, he looks perky right now, but it's early.

I looked in the bucket and don't really see anything. I see one tiny worm-like thing, it kinda looks like a grey "bloodworm" but can't tell if it's a hair or an actual worm. But don't see much else.

Should I see more if it is flukes?

Any thoughts?

 

[iReefer12]

Someone on another forum suggested that it is ammonia poisoning and my ammonia badges could be reading wrong. But I don't buy that, the tank has live rock and has been setup for months, and also, wouldn't that affect both the same. The other one is doing fine it appears

 

[iReefer12]

Well, a bit of good news. He's still swimming tonight. And I tried some of the Dr G's anti bacterial food, the fish roe one, not had much success with it before and not sure how well it works as a medication, but anyway, I poured some in and both butterflies ate and went after the food. First time the one has chased food in 2-3 days.

 

[Humblefish]

If you didn't see any white specks fall off during the 5 min FW dip, then you can rule out flukes. However, it is still possible a parasite such as ich is afflicting his gills. The fact that he seems better tonight suggests the FW dip did help to (temporarily) relieve something that was bothering him.

Have you double checked the ammonia using a test kit? Just for the sake of argument, if he was exposed to ammonia at some point... treatment for that would be methylene blue (see below.)

Malachite Green/Methylene Blue: Treats ammonia burn, cuts, injuries.

How To Treat - Comes in both liquid and powder form, sometimes mixed in with another medication(s). So, follow the directions on the label. Best used as a 30 minute bath solution, but you also can treat with it in a quarantine tank. Aerate heavily. If you are using it in a bath solution, then it is also a good idea to treat the fish with nitrofurazone (active ingredient found in Furan-2 and Nitrofuracin Green Powder) once he is returned to the quarantine tank. Nitrofurazone is great for treating open wounds or sores.

Pros - Highly effective.

Cons/Side Effects - Depletes oxygen from the water. Malachite Green is considered “harsher” on fish than Methylene Blue.

 

[iReefer12]

I haven't got any methylene blue on hand, ordered some just now but won't get it til Monday. Should I treat with some NitroFuracin green in the mean time?

 

[Humblefish]

I haven't got any methylene blue on hand, ordered some just now but won't get it til Monday. Should I treat with some NitroFuracin green in the mean time?

If the fish starts looking bad again, I would do a 30 min bath using Nitrofuracin Green; as that stuff seems to works wonders on butterflies. It contains some methylene blue, but it's also not a bad idea to keep just methylene blue on hand so you can treat with a higher concentration, if needed.

Moving forward, do you have any plans to treat these fish for external parasites?

 

[iReefer12]

I'll do that then. No plans yet, was going to treat when and if I see parasites. Not convinced it's ICH yet, not seen any flashing or even any visible signs.