Peroxide Dip for New Fish?

[Dive Cowboy]

I know I should quarantine new fish, but I don't have the space for a second tank. So, I was thinking, I know peroxide won't eliminate everything, but I feel like a bath before introduction would eliminate a couple of the more serious and common issues that come along with some non-quarantined fish. I asked my LFS if that made sense and they assured me that it does. Any reason not to do this, other than possibly stressing a fish?

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

just my opinion so don't listen to me, but I feel either QT or don't QT. If you don't QT, then the name of the game is avoid all stress to the fish.

Doing something that you know will stress the fish and then putting into your tank without QT, to me, is a recipe for disease.

 

[jda]

You cannot know that the strong oxidizer won't harm cells on the fish as just as much as they might harm parasites or other things. Gills, eyes are all sensitive. Even if they don't die, they can be harmed.

I know that people dose peroxides into their tanks, but this is never a good idea to me. It also is not nearly as likely be to as strong as a dip.

Although I have never seen it, I am sure that Jay has an opinion on peroxide. @Jay Hemdal

 

[DaJMasta]

It's being done somewhat, and either as a mild prophylactic treatment or a diagnostic (like for flukes or isopods) it could be helpful, but it's not something that is a great blanket every-case (as so little is.)

I don't think a half hour dip will eliminate all that many issues, though it may alleviate some and may prevent very early infections from taking hold (though you probably wouldn't see signs of them beforehand), and this is probably common to most short term non-QT dips, including for corals. It can offer some help and maybe a step up above infections, can perhaps make issues more visible in certain cases, and generally shouldn't be harmful to much, but do not confuse this with eliminating problems or diseases.

I think H2O2 dips are generally fairly mild when compared to other handling stresses, but it may be that for particularly sick, tired, or injured fish it could exacerbate the existing issue.

Here's a rundown of some testing on fish it's been used for and a basic methodology: https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/fish-peroxide-compatibility-list.1789/

Worth mentioning that especially for smaller fish, a QT tank doesn't need to be big. A bucket will do for small fish - though it makes it harder to observe them, the dark sides may actually slightly lessen initial introduction stress.

 

[Dive Cowboy]

It's being done somewhat, and either as a mild prophylactic treatment or a diagnostic (like for flukes or isopods) it could be helpful, but it's not something that is a great blanket every-case (as so little is.)

I don't think a half hour dip will eliminate all that many issues, though it may alleviate some and may prevent very early infections from taking hold (though you probably wouldn't see signs of them beforehand), and this is probably common to most short term non-QT dips, including for corals. It can offer some help and maybe a step up above infections, can perhaps make issues more visible in certain cases, and generally shouldn't be harmful to much, but do not confuse this with eliminating problems or diseases.

I think H2O2 dips are generally fairly mild when compared to other handling stresses, but it may be that for particularly sick, tired, or injured fish it could exacerbate the existing issue.

Here's a rundown of some testing on fish it's been used for and a basic methodology: https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/fish-peroxide-compatibility-list.1789/

Worth mentioning that especially for smaller fish, a QT tank doesn't need to be big. A bucket will do for small fish - though it makes it harder to observe them, the dark sides may actually slightly lessen initial introduction stress.

I hear ya. My thought was that if velvet or ich or present, a dip would possibly eliminate those two things. It would only be done on healthy fish being prepared to be added to a new tank, so no risk in exacerbating a current issue

 

[Evil1]

With all due respect nooo way! Just think what peroxide does to our skin when we put it on a cut. Do a fresh water Rodi bath. Look it up. Sorry I’m sure the peroxide will strip slime coat, damage gills and so on. Just my opinion

 

[Dive Cowboy]

With all due respect nooo way! Just think what peroxide does to our skin when we put it on a cut. Do a fresh water Rodi bath. Look it up. Sorry I’m sure the peroxide will strip slime coat, damage gills and so on. Just my opinion

Sorry, new to all this, but people do peroxide baths for fish all the time to treat for certain parasites, right? Most do quite well with them, as evidenced by the Humblefish post linked to in a previous reply.

 

[Evil1]

With all due respect nooo way! Just think what peroxide does to our skin when we put it on a cut. Do a fresh water Rodi bath. Look it up. Sorry I’m sure the peroxide will strip slime coat, damage gills and so on. Just my opinion.

Sorry, new to all this, but people do peroxide baths for fish all the time to treat for certain parasites, right? Most do quite well with them, as evidenced by the Humblefish post linked to in a previous reply.

i understand and yes peroxide can be added to a reef tank in very small amounts to boost fish health when battling parasites I have done it myself. However it is in my opinion going to do anything but damage the fish at high concentrations and nothing to prevent anything at safe or low concentrations in salt water bath. If you feel comfortable doing it god bless!

 

[jda]

I would not assume that just because a fish does not die that it was not injured. I do not know how anybody could say that fish did quite well since nobody knows what happened to it - it is not like fish has 1-800 laywers on daytime TV to file class action lawsuits when their lives are cut short from something that somebody said on the internet was safe. To me, this is similar to people letting ammonia get too high in QT and new tanks - this too can damage fish even if they live.

How do you know that the oxidant even got to the parasite? They are pretty small and use a math game of surface area. Hard for me to assume that parasite was injured and larger things were not.

 

[jda]

I would think of peroxide the same way as chemotherapy... except we don't know for sure that oxidants target what we want like the forms of chemo do... so a bad version of chemo.

 

[Dive Cowboy]

I would not assume that just because a fish does not die that it was not injured. I do not know how anybody could say that fish did quite well since nobody knows what happened to it - it is not like fish has 1-800 laywers on daytime TV to file class action lawsuits when their lives are cut short from something that somebody said on the internet was safe. To me, this is similar to people letting ammonia get too high in QT and new tanks - this too can damage fish even if they live.

How do you know that the oxidant even got to the parasite? They are pretty small and use a math game of surface area. Hard for me to assume that parasite was injured and larger things were not.

I don't know. I was just referring to this post that seems to point to it being pretty safe.

Definitely not sure if it kills all the parasites. That's a good point. But it is one of the go-to methods for dealing with said parasites.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Sorry, new to all this, but people do peroxide baths for fish all the time to treat for certain parasites, right? Most do quite well with them, as evidenced by the Humblefish post linked to in a previous reply.

peroxide is often a short cut and quite frankly ineffective in many cases and is as mentioned an oxidizer, not a treatment. Quarantine reduces risk and chance for disease to take hold of a fish. Bypassing is a risk you take

 

[jda]

Vibrant was a go-to-method. So were many things that ended up being wrong. There are some cult type of activities in this hobby that were not good ideas and some that are happening today that are still not good ideas. People used to use formaldehyde on fish for parasites. Seen some coca-cola and tonic water.

I would wait and see what Jay says.

I also don't see folk that sell QT'd fish brag about how they used peroxide on them.

 

[Dive Cowboy]

Vibrant was a go-to-method. So were many things that ended up being wrong. There are some cult type of activities in this hobby that were not good ideas and some that are happening today that are still not good ideas. People used to use formaldehyde on fish for parasites. Seen some coca-cola and tonic water.

I would wait and see what Jay says.

I also don't see folk that sell QT'd fish brag about how they used peroxide on them.

Sorry, meant to link this https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/fish-peroxide-compatibility-list.1789/

 

[vetteguy53081]

Sorry, meant to link this https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/fish-peroxide-compatibility-list.1789/

This chart is for a bath - Not treatment

 

[Dive Cowboy]

This chart is for a bath - Not treatment

Why else would someone do a peroxide bath?

 

[Evil1]

Sorry, meant to link this https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/fish-peroxide-compatibility-list.1789/

That’s why we are here. A good majority of us have been doing this for years some most of our lives. So we have been there and made mistakes along the way. Trust us if any of us have negative thoughts on something 99% of the time our advice is correct.

 

[DaJMasta]

Vibrant was a go-to-method. So were many things that ended up being wrong. There are some cult type of activities in this hobby that were not good ideas and some that are happening today that are still not good ideas. People used to use formaldehyde on fish for parasites. Seen some coca-cola and tonic water.

I would wait and see what Jay says.

I also don't see folk that sell QT'd fish brag about how they used peroxide on them.

Vibrant's whole controversy wasn't that it was ineffective, but they did not properly disclose what it was.

Formaldehyde in water is Formalin, one of the decades long, industry standard fish treatments, and it is still recommended and effective today with the caveat of needing handling precautions.

Peroxide is also a tried-and-true method for dipping and dosing which has been around for decades. It's not as effective as dedicated treatment in a quarantine system, but you act like it's hocus pocus or something and then compare it to chemotherapy which, to me, reflects an unjustified distrust and misunderstanding of a well understood, widely used at-home treatment method.

There's nothing requiring you to use it, but you seem to be very, very anti-peroxide for whatever reason, and as someone who has used it in a limited sense and acknowledges the hundreds of well documented uses for it being at least reasonably safe and effective, I haven't found any of your arguments against it particularly compelling.

Yes, people have and will continue to bandwagon onto things and misattribute treatments in this hobby, but it's almost equally unhelpful to dramatically downplay a widely tested treatment option without sharing any personal experience warning against it nor any scientific basis or testing that suggests it's unsafe. It may not effectively treat everything and may not be an ideal choice for a dip, but there is no evidence suggesting that it 'works like chemotherapy', that it erodes away the slime coat, or that it will broadly harm a fish's organs.

 

[Dive Cowboy]

That’s why we are here. A good majority of us have been doing this for years some most of our lives. So we have been there and made mistakes along the way. Trust us if any of us have negative thoughts on something 99% of the time our advice is correct.

I appreciate the advice, but I don't follow. That link is the results of a peroxide dip, which is exactly what I'm asking about doing.

 

[Evil1]

Yes and once again the majority of members who replied to your post were not in favor of doing so. That said do what you want. I don’t understand what you’re not understanding? You asked a question members replied.