Perry's Shallow Water Acro Dominant Build Thread

[Perry]

Today, all but the final last strands of dinos, which have been fading, appear to be gone from display. Rocks are clean, and tank looks crystal clear. Sometimes we feel the way we have had success in the past, is the proven and tried way. I am now heading in a direction that I would have never thought of, even a couple months back. For now, I will only feed, skim, run a little carbon, and that's it. Not really interested in chasing nutrients, whether I feel low or high, I don't want to have to dose this or that to keep nutrients at a targeted number. I know, 100%, that if push comes to shove, I simply tune my skimmer to pull harder. Right now the skimmer is very dry, pulling, but not chugging I will continue to keep mangrove lit for 24 hours until 100% no dinos, which it appears to be, but not taking chances.
I will try and get some ugly coral pics up later to show the struggle, lol
Cheers

 

[drawman]

Today, all but the final last strands of dinos, which have been fading, appear to be gone from display. Rocks are clean, and tank looks crystal clear. Sometimes we feel the way we have had success in the past, is the proven and tried way. I am now heading in a direction that I would have never thought of, even a couple months back. For now, I will only feed, skim, run a little carbon, and that's it. Not really interested in chasing nutrients, whether I feel low or high, I don't want to have to dose this or that to keep nutrients at a targeted number. I know, 100%, that if push comes to shove, I simply tune my skimmer to pull harder. Right now the skimmer is very dry, pulling, but not chugging I will continue to keep mangrove lit for 24 hours until 100% no dinos, which it appears to be, but not taking chances.
I will try and get some ugly coral pics up later to show the struggle, lol
Cheers

Well that was a quick turnaround!

 

[Perry]

Well that was a quick turnaround!

Tim,
I will add this, as soon as I saw dinos, I did not wait. The tank is turning around, not sure what's going to make it, but tank is crazy clear, lps looking really good, shrooms ok, WD unphased showing growth and color, starburst cap poo poo, spongegodes coming back, purple stylo coming back, pink caddi looking better, and last two to make it, tricolor valida and slimer rough, but 50/50 shot. Sadly, that's all that made it. I am convinced I was the problem, I should have waited until the point of where I am now, to begin stocking sps. Owell, be awhile before I add anything else, lol.

 

[Perry]

@drawman Tim,
Last time I beat dinos was during Irma, lost power for almost a week, everything but sps made it. When power restored, I did a water change, no dinos. Pre Irma, I was in a major onset of dinos, I believe it was from adding bio media in a reactor (Aquaforest) and plummiting no3. Obviously bacteria die off was major, due to only running a air pump, and 4 hours a day with small wave pump. That said, I am if a thought that bacteria plays a role if imbalanced for bringing on cyano or dinos. Obviously when power restored, the skimmer went nuts, and skimmed hard while waiting for water to change out. Likely, pulling dead bacteria. So based on my non scientific reasoning, I believe that too many changes outside of rock and skimmer and the balance of bacteria is what cures dinos. This is exactly why I ran chemi clean cyano remover, with no cyano present. The antibiotic is supposed to kill off bad bacteria and not harm the good, at least from my understanding. Hope the long winded explanation makes sense.
Cheers

 

[drawman]

@drawman Tim,
Last time I beat dinos was during Irma, lost power for almost a week, everything but sps made it. When power restored, I did a water change, no dinos. Pre Irma, I was in a major onset of dinos, I believe it was from adding bio media in a reactor (Aquaforest) and plummiting no3. Obviously bacteria die off was major, due to only running a air pump, and 4 hours a day with small wave pump. That said, I am if a thought that bacteria plays a role if imbalanced for bringing on cyano or dinos. Obviously when power restored, the skimmer went nuts, and skimmed hard while waiting for water to change out. Likely, pulling dead bacteria. So based on my non scientific reasoning, I believe that too many changes outside of rock and skimmer and the balance of bacteria is what cures dinos. This is exactly why I ran chemi clean cyano remover, with no cyano present. The antibiotic is supposed to kill off bad bacteria and not harm the good, at least from my understanding. Hope the long winded explanation makes sense.
Cheers

I think you're absolutely right Perry. Bacterial diversity most certainly plays a role and I think in cases like mine I truly lack it which allow monocultures of dinos and cyano to thrive!

 

[Perry]

Perry, I would suggest raising your alkalinity if you are planning to raise your nitrates and phosphates for higher nutrients. I made the switch and haven’t looked back.

Hey Ricky,
Would you mind sharing your current parameters of the switch you made? Also, given higher nutrients, are you seeing any negative effects?
Thanks buddy!!!

 

[Perry]

I think you're absolutely right Perry. Bacterial diversity most certainly plays a role and I think in cases like mine I truly lack it which allow monocultures of dinos and cyano to thrive!

Hey Tim,
I saw this happening when corals started looking smug, I knew something was amiss, and dinos told me what the corals were showing me in advance, total starvation, but imbalance underlying. At this point, I knew the best thing would be a refresh. Using chemi clean, I knew would at least do just this, from a bacteria stand point. I am yet to add bacteria(mb7), despite what my historical reefing toolkit screams. I believe this refresh, followed by fresh water change, is what helped to counteract all this. Now, post cemi clean(48 hours), I still had a day left in blackout. I did this 20% water change, despite being blacked out. I also went online with gac, and continued airstone, no skimming. Once the lights started (blue led only), I could still see dinos, but broken up. I just began feeding my fish heavy and ignored. A ran this way for about 5 days, then fired up the skimmer. In advance, I made 10 gallons of fresh salt water, knowing my skimmer would go nuts from chemi clean, despite offsetting 15 gallons 5 days prior. I simply allowed the skimmer to overfill into a bucket, and as it filled, replaced with this 10 gallons of premade salt water. The skimmer stopped overflowing after about 7 gallons collected from overflow of skimmer. After the skimmer was back to normal, I siphoned off 3 gallons from dt, and replaced with fresh 3 gallons remaining. Since, just letting tank run, no sock, almost to encourage nutrients. This AM, not one sign of dinos or any other algae. Wanted to be clear on my process.
Cheers

 

[drawman]

Hey Tim,
I saw this happening when corals started looking smug, I knew something was amiss, and dinos told me what the corals were showing me in advance, total starvation, but imbalance underlying. At this point, I knew the best thing would be a refresh. Using chemi clean, I knew would at least do just this, from a bacteria stand point. I am yet to add bacteria(mb7), despite what my historical reefing toolkit screams. I believe this refresh, followed by fresh water change, is what helped to counteract all this. Now, post cemi clean(48 hours), I still had a day left in blackout. I did this 20% water change, despite being blacked out. I also went online with gac, and continued airstone, no skimming. Once the lights started (blue led only), I could still see dinos, but broken up. I just began feeding my fish heavy and ignored. A ran this way for about 5 days, then fired up the skimmer. In advance, I made 10 gallons of fresh salt water, knowing my skimmer would go nuts from chemi clean, despite offsetting 15 gallons 5 days prior. I simply allowed the skimmer to overfill into a bucket, and as it filled, replaced with this 10 gallons of premade salt water. The skimmer stopped overflowing after about 7 gallons collected from overflow of skimmer. After the skimmer was back to normal, I siphoned off 3 gallons from dt, and replaced with fresh 3 gallons remaining. Since, just letting tank run, no sock, almost to encourage nutrients. This AM, not one sign of dinos or any other algae. Wanted to be clear on my process.
Cheers

I definitely appreciate your explanation Perry. I will be getting my UV sterilizer up and running this weekend and I will have chemiclean on order. Dinos and cyano are really sucking up the nutrients for me so it will be nice to get over the hump. Will be excited to see how your tank progresses!

 

[Perry]

Good, bad, ugly...
So to take the pics, had to scrape glass. The glass algae is the stage of where next, coraline algae. Had to use scraper, it was a hard green algae. After scraping, I noticed tons of coraline sprouts all over the tank. I have not been so observing lately, as my expectations low, at least for sps. Saw a decline in alk, so again, the trend seems good. Was up to 8.5, down to 8.0, in 2 days. Buffered to bump again. Anyway on to the tank

FTS: I did pull rock from the sump and change the design, kinda old school, but when the vision comes to fruition, I will be more satisfied.

Next, lower left corner, duncan very happy, acans were looking poo poo, but coming back. That rock is covered in coraline, the real deal coraline, lol.

And now some sps, yep, going to show these for what they are, hoping to watch them recover, all tissue necrosis has halted. Some may grow over there skeleton, but not going to interfere, not cutting away dead area just yet, as long as the algae stays away

 

[Graffiti Spot]

Glad things are looking better. I wonder if people are still using hydrogen peroxide to treat for Dino’s with success.

 

[Perry]

Glad things are looking better. I wonder if people are still using hydrogen peroxide to treat for Dino’s with success.

Hmmmm, now you got me thinking, lol. Wondering if the Chemi clean sort of did the same thing, from an antibiotic standpoint. Regardless, yes, on to better days my friend
Cheers

 

[Perry]

Update:
Zero signs of dinos.
Non sps corals look great, wd best looking sps, pink caddi coloring up, looking like its growing. Purple stylo coming back, but not very hopeful on sps that lost tissue, they are slowly receding despite signs of growth and health elsewhere in the tank. I tested for NO3, even though tank looks clean and free of algae, I matched color on salifert to between 10-15. I tuned skimmer to begin collecting a bit more, not as dry. Alk uptake continues, dipped to 7.7dkh, so buffered accordingly. Looks like soon, will have to automate 3 part dosing, using ESV. Lastly, I am in recent explosion of coraline algae, spots everywhere throughout the tank.
My final thoughts: My system seems to be finding balance, sponge growth, pods laying eggs on glass, clean rocks, etc. I will probably add a few sps after the holidays, but in no hurry Next week, halide will run from 4 hours to 5. Alright, that's about it for now.
Cheers

 

[Perry]

Update
So I have been laid up with an old knee injury, and have been in front of the tank for many more days over the last week than I prefer, lol. That said, I have been giving tons of thought to my system, home, electric bill, ac, and really everything that ties into running the tank. Now, I absolutely love the MH setup, but after really thinking over temp swings, electric costs, extra heat in the living room, fan running to cool the water, and increase in top off, I decided to see if I can run this tank under my current LED panels. I have been using a Geisemann Verve with a 2 puck design, and a Taiwan made Block 2 LED 2 puck light on either side of the halide, blues only. So I decided to run the tank under just the LED lamps, adding white, red, and green into the mix. The result seems to be promising, at least from what my eyes tell me.
The Verve is running 95% peak on all Blues and UV, nice thing about the Verve is the choice of 3 different Blue channels. Not so nice, is that the Soft White ties into the red spectrum channel, so i decided to peak Red and Soft White at 30%. The Cool White channel peaks at 60%. The result is a lovely 20K appearance. The Verve sits at 10" off water line and seems that it alone could probably handle most SPS on the top part of the reef. The Verve is mounted just off center of the tank, and the light runs parallel to the tank's length.
Now, the Block2 mounting system sits it around 5" off surface, it is mounted so the 2 pucks run back to front, opposite direction as the Verve, it is really intended to light the left side of the tank, and spills into the middle, giving that extra coverage. This lamp peaks 70% on all blues and UV, 20% Red and Green(on same channel), and whites at around 25%. Together the 2 LED panels compliment each other nicely, took some time to get the timing of the 2 lamps in sync, as far as color and intensity goes, but the result is pretty sweet.
So, the 2 panels over a tank that is 36"x20"x20" lit by the Verve, total max wattage at 180, and the Block at 145 total max wattage, seem to me that this is way more than enough light. So, I will now see a decline in temp swings, less top off, less heat into the room which requires the AC to run constantly, we run at 70 degrees and kinda like it cool. Time will tell if this was a good move or not, but given I only have a few SPS at this point, what could it hurt.
That's it for now, will update soon, Merry Christmas all!!!

 

[Perry]

So a quick update
Last weekend added sand, removed a powerhead, and tuned down flow a bit. Went online with chaeto, and using reverse light cycle. Nutrients are ok, 10 on nitrate and no phosphate detected on hannah po4. Seldom am I swiping glass, this explains low po4. I decided to run skimmer on opposite cycle of chaeto, so during lights on skimmer runs. Also added a few cheap sps, setosa, green cap and green bn. They are doing good a week later. WD still looking good, others impacted still smug. This was definitely a starved coral issue, I suspect limited po4, so upping feeding, hopefully I will see glass algae increase, eluding po4 increase.
Since sand was added, scape changed to very limited in display, all rock moved to sump, luckily its a large sump. All in all, seems to be looking nice on the eyes, still not sure about only LEDs, time will tell.
Cheers

 

[siggy]

will have to automate 3 part dosing, using ESV

Here I thought you were an AF guy Tanks looking crisp and clean. What's your thoughts of supplemental T5's

 

[Perry]

Here I thought you were an ** guy Tanks looking crisp and clean. What's your thoughts of supplemental T5's

Hey siggy, lol, "AF" gets filtered, should be taken up with mods, being they are a sponsor, and this in my opinion hurts their reach. I have a great rapport with Aquaforest and worked as a sponsor and rep for awhile. They have great products, but I wanted this tank simple, products mostly not needed. Skimmer dialed back, so no need to push ULNS. I feed quality foods, rods, LRS, PE mysis, and Reef Roids occasionally, and gamma Nutri pelets(lps love it). I still use the carbon from Aquaforest, but decided to toss all remaining stuff, as to stay on the simple plan. I just began with RS blue bucket from TMPR salts. A bit cheaper, and not feeling water changes are all that important right now. Still a good salt.
As far as T5, I have been using them since they were heavily debated, since 2006, and still only have faith in them. I look all the time for an ati fixture, and will probably make a move on a 6 bulb with 2 sbars on either side. The LEDs to me seem to be close, and likely sustainable, but have always trusted ati. That said, the geissemann t5 retro would be my choice, so it will be a coin toss, likely less expensive too, I could use 4t5, and just the verve in center. Hmmmmmm.
Thanks for the kind words

 

[siggy]

the geissemann t5 retro would be my choice

I would like to see someone give that a try, I have the AL with no complaints at all, just like to see the new stuff in action.
I will check out gamma pellets, I am filling up with LPS it seems although I am trying to grab some acros in the live sale
today.

 

[Perry]

I would like to see someone give that a try, I have the AL with no complaints at all, just like to see the new stuff in action.
I will check out gamma pellets, I am filling up with LPS it seems although I am trying to grab some acros in the live sale
today.

Hey Siggy
I had one of the 1st versions of AL hybrid, to me, mine seemed cheaply put together, during assembly, a couple screws would not tighten, just put me off. I didn't like reflectors as well. Also had a wire pull loose on one of the end caps, fixed, but again, put off.
Geissemann makes quality stuff, and while it appears to be more, I am certain many of my issues with AL would avoided. I would expect a good ballast, but more importantly reflectors. I am now really giving this future thought, my led would work perfectly, as it too is geissemann. I am surprised ATI or Pacific Sun has not entered the hybrid retro game. Anyway, I am certain AL has upped the QC, when I got mine, the couldn't make them fast enough, lol, and ultimately did its job. I like options though.

 

[siggy]

Agreed, ATI is missing the boat, I actually emailed them for two-2 bulb fixtures, cant remember if I received a response.

 

[Perry]

Agreed, ATI is missing the boat, I actually emailed them for two-2 bulb fixtures, cant remember if I received a response.

Can you imagine if they used their same reflectors and ballast? This is what nudges me to geissemann, certain it would raise par and spread. I would probably run 2B+ and 2 C+ and run t5 for 6 hours. I would likely use mostly blue channels on led. ATI probably doesn't want to take away from their hybrid setups, likely same for Pacific Sun. They ate not focusing on US trends, like missing the boat big time. US customers want to use their choice of LED, t5 comes 2nd, pretty much opposite as Europe, lol.