Persistent Ich...

[Rover]

Well, I still have Ich.

In my build thread I detailed it out, but short version...
- Got Ich
- Moved everything to QT tank
- Added copper over a week, treated copper for 28 days.
- Display was fallow for 80ish days. One more or less.
- Moved everything back.


After I moved everything back I cleaned out the QT tank, and then put a bunch more fish in. QT'd them for 4 weeks with copper, 2 weeks observation, put them into the main tank only a few weeks ago.

A few days ago I noticed a pair of small white dots on my tang, in an area that looked heavily scratched. Hoped it wasn't ich. Today I noticed two salt like white dots on my green clown goby, which looks EXACTLY like how he looked before when he had ich, except only 2, not 2 dozen.

So I've been racking my brain trying to think how I screwed up. Most likely was, based on my reading, cross-contamination (I live in a place with other people, so can't rule out someone else wanting to touch things), or aerosolizing? The tanks were in the same corner of my apartment, only a few feet away. I don't have a lot of room unfortunately.


The only other theory I came up with doesn't seem to be factored into most QT procedures... So follow me on this.

1. I move my fish from the display tank, into my QT tank with no copper. This is to let them adjust.

2. I then slowly add copper over a week.

3. I hold them at that level for four weeks.

4. For the remainder of the fallow period, they sit there and maybe get a prazipro treatment too and just observe them.


So, using the above steps... What is stopping the ich from falling off the fish between steps 1 and 2, and remaining in the tank, then having the cysts 'pop' AFTER steps 3, to reinfect them? Does Copper kill the cysted ich? Once I'm done treating them with copper, am I supposed to take them out and place them in another tank that has never had a fish with ich in it?


I'm really not looking forwards to gutting the aquarium again, as I only just got it looking pretty. Sigh.

EDIT- Cysted ich, not cysted fish.

 

[ChronosReef]

Well, I still have Ich.

In my build thread I detailed it out, but short version...
- Got Ich
- Moved everything to QT tank
- Added copper over a week, treated copper for 28 days.
- Display was fallow for 80ish days. One more or less.
- Moved everything back.


After I moved everything back I cleaned out the QT tank, and then put a bunch more fish in. QT'd them for 4 weeks with copper, 2 weeks observation, put them into the main tank only a few weeks ago.

A few days ago I noticed a pair of small white dots on my tang, in an area that looked heavily scratched. Hoped it wasn't ich. Today I noticed two salt like white dots on my green clown goby, which looks EXACTLY like how he looked before when he had ich, except only 2, not 2 dozen.

So I've been racking my brain trying to think how I screwed up. Most likely was, based on my reading, cross-contamination (I live in a place with other people, so can't rule out someone else wanting to touch things), or aerosolizing? The tanks were in the same corner of my apartment, only a few feet away. I don't have a lot of room unfortunately.


The only other theory I came up with doesn't seem to be factored into most QT procedures... So follow me on this.

1. I move my fish from the display tank, into my QT tank with no copper. This is to let them adjust.

2. I then slowly add copper over a week.

3. I hold them at that level for four weeks.

4. For the remainder of the fallow period, they sit there and maybe get a prazipro treatment too and just observe them.


So, using the above steps... What is stopping the ich from falling off the fish between steps 1 and 2, and remaining in the tank, then having the cysts 'pop' AFTER steps 3, to reinfect them? Does Copper kill the cysted ich? Once I'm done treating them with copper, am I supposed to take them out and place them in another tank that has never had a fish with ich in it?


I'm really not looking forwards to gutting the aquarium again, as I only just got it looking pretty. Sigh.

EDIT- Cysted ich, not cysted fish.

Well it’s mostlikely your time in qt for treatment, 76 days of treatment plus 2 weeks. Your qt does not cover the full lifecycle of the parasite.

Cited from the CVA:

Life cycle of Ich: The trophont (feeding, encysted stage) enlarges, breaks through the skin, and attaches to substrate forming the encapsulated dividing tomont. These tomonts undergo mitosis, forming hundreds of daughter tomites; tomites develop into free-living theronts (infective stage).

 

[ChronosReef]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/tomont


Great read if you have a moment. But this time qt the fish for 76 days and then monitor for two weeks. I hope that helps ich can be really nasty.

 

[Rover]

The fallow period for a tank is 76 days because the cysted ich can last that long before 'hatching'.

The lifecycle of the ich parasite on the physical fish itself is only... 3-7 days, I think? Then it falls off and cysts.

What do you do to 'treat' the fish for the 76 days? I don't think its healthy to keep them in copper that long.

 

[ChronosReef]

Well I have 3 tanks set up all are 55 gallons, I treat with copper in 1 for 4 weeks, then transfer to secondary tank and watch for 2 weeks, if new spots after 2 weeks then I start hyposalitty until I see spots are gone completely then I wait 2 weeks and then transfer into clean tank ea similar conditions to my main tank for 1 week of heavy observation. I have a camera on that tank lol.

I’m sorry I should have been more clear.

Also between this time I use other medication and do a 25 percent water change auto() every two days. Stress often brings out other conditions I try to make it as stressless as possible for the fish.

It has keep my system extremely clean from parasites. Also I would assume you are qt other things such as coral for 76 days if you are adding new coral

 

[Rover]

Ah gotcha. After you treat with copper you move them into another tank. That is the step I skipped that I think caused the resurgence, as I left them in the same QT tank I had been treating them in.

I was not quarantining corals and inverts, however I haven't added any since the first bout of Ich, so that wouldn't be the cause. Going forwards I intend to QT anything wet going into the tank. I'm just space restricted, and it was hard enough setting up ONE extra QT tank, let alone 2 or more if I'm going to be doing it properly.

Well I have 3 tanks set up all are 55 gallons, I treat with copper in 1 for 4 weeks, then transfer to secondary tank and watch for 2 weeks, if new spots after 2 weeks then I start hyposalitty until I see spots are gone completely then I wait 2 weeks and then transfer into clean tank ea similar conditions to my main tank for 1 week of heavy observation. I have a camera on that tank lol.

I’m sorry I should have been more clear.

Also between this time I use other medication and do a 25 percent water change auto() every two days. Stress often brings out other conditions I try to make it as stressless as possible for the fish.

It has keep my system extremely clean from parasites. Also I would assume you are qt other things such as coral for 76 days if you are adding new coral

 

[ChronosReef]

If that is too much 6-8 weeks of qt the cypotocaryon will show for sure if your fish is infected as the copper / hypo should cause stress.

But I’m not saying my method is the best or the go to , it just has been helpful for me. But I could see this working with a two tank setup.

I remember when I first started qt I accidentitly added copper to a 250 display. Yeah that went over well.