PH & ALK question using Red Sea Coral Pro

[Calpoly2103]

Hi Everyone,

I have a couple chemistry questions. I started my tank 6 weeks ago with red sea coral pro salt. I threw in a bottle of dr tim's and dosed ammonia over the course of cycle. I did no water changes during the duration of the cycle. I did a 90% water change this past weekend and added fish yesterday.

During this initial 5 week cycle, ALK dropped from 11.5 to 7.7. Calcium stayed the same at 450, and Mag stayed the same at 1430 for all 5 weeks. If I wanted to dose just ALK, what products do you guys recommend? I wanted to use B-IONIC, however I think that affects both alk and calcium. I plan to add coral in a few weeks and want to make sure I understand how to dose and keep stability before I do.

Second Question, after my 90% water change on Sunday my PH has went from 8.12 to 7.94 today and continues to decline. Anyone know why this is happening? My goal is to do a 5 gallon water change on 30 gallons of volume once weekly. (IM 40 NUVO tank). I would expect my PH to stay around 8.

Thanks! Appreciate all the advice.

 

[LiveWire]

You can dose just Alk with B-Ionic 2 part as the elements come in separate containers. Once you get corals in the system you will need the calcium as well. The PH may be from the CO2 that is built up in your home. getting rid of the CO2 in your home by replacing it with fresh air will help maintain your PH in your system. These articles by @Randy Holmes-Farley may be of help to understand the hows and whys.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm
Also
http://www.reefedition.com/ph-and-the-reef-aquarium/

 

[Brew12]

Hi Everyone,

I have a couple chemistry questions. I started my tank 6 weeks ago with red sea coral pro salt. I threw in a bottle of dr tim's and dosed ammonia over the course of cycle. I did no water changes during the duration of the cycle. I did a 90% water change this past weekend and added fish yesterday.

During this initial 5 week cycle, ALK dropped from 11.5 to 7.7. Calcium stayed the same at 450, and Mag stayed the same at 1430 for all 5 weeks. If I wanted to dose just ALK, what products do you guys recommend? I wanted to use B-IONIC, however I think that affects both alk and calcium. I plan to add coral in a few weeks and want to make sure I understand how to dose and keep stability before I do.

Second Question, after my 90% water change on Sunday my PH has went from 8.12 to 7.94 today and continues to decline. Anyone know why this is happening? My goal is to do a 5 gallon water change on 30 gallons of volume once weekly. (IM 40 NUVO tank). I would expect my PH to stay around 8.

Thanks! Appreciate all the advice.

I would encourage you to wait until your alk stabilizes before adding corals. If you have other reactions going on in your tank causing alk to drop it will be very challenging to keep things stable enough for coral. As for pH, there are two things that impact it. Alkalinity and CO2. The drop in pH indicates you had either a lower alkalinity and/or a higher CO2 content. If I close the windows to my house my pH drops from 8.2 to 7.9 (average). I get a swing of about 0.2 during the course of a day.

 

[Calpoly2103]

Thank you. The reading was helpful. I will be sure to open my windows/doors tonight after work and do so consistently. Hopefully this will fix the issue.

Yeah I don't plan to add any SPS/LPS until my ALK stabilizes which I would expect will take a few water changes done consistently. Just trying to learn and understand dosing and make sure I know what to do when the time comes.

 

[Calpoly2103]

I would encourage you to wait until your alk stabilizes before adding corals. If you have other reactions going on in your tank causing alk to drop it will be very challenging to keep things stable enough for coral. As for pH, there are two things that impact it. Alkalinity and CO2. The drop in pH indicates you had either a lower alkalinity and/or a higher CO2 content. If I close the windows to my house my pH drops from 8.2 to 7.9 (average). I get a swing of about 0.2 during the course of a day.

So when you say when your "ALK" stabilizes what exactly do you mean? I've read/heard that ALK will precipitate and decrease even if no coral is in the tank, where as calcium will stay more stable (From LFS). I've played with some numbers and obviously doing a 5 gallon weekly water change on a 30 gallon water volume eventually ALK will fall lower than desirable levels just like during my cycle.

I guess what I'm saying is, what do you mean by when your alk "stabilizes" I feel the only way i would stabilize it would be to dose it in addition to wc. Should I wait till it naturally drops to about 9.0, then start dosing to keep it there in addition to WC?

Thanks,

 

[Brew12]

So when you say when your "ALK" stabilizes what exactly do you mean? I've read/heard that ALK will precipitate and decrease even if no coral is in the tank, where as calcium will stay more stable (From LFS). I've played with some numbers and obviously doing a 5 gallon weekly water change on a 30 gallon water volume eventually ALK will fall lower than desirable levels just like during my cycle.

I guess what I'm saying is, what do you mean by when your alk "stabilizes" I feel the only way i would stabilize it would be to dose it in addition to wc. Should I wait till it naturally drops to about 9.0, then start dosing to keep it there in addition to WC?

Thanks,

Alk is more likely to decrease than calc in my experience, but it shouldn't happen at nearly the rate you are seeing. That is part of why some people say you should wait 4 month before adding coral. I was lucky when I set up my first system and alkalinity would drop by less than 0.5dkh per week after the first month. For some people, that process can take much longer.
And I will never say you can't be successful trying to keep coral with a system having that big of a non coral related alkalinity drop but it will make it much more challenging. Especially SPS and LPS.
Otherwise, you have the right idea. Get the tank at an alkalinity you want and then dose as needed to keep it there. If you are dosing, I like to find a salt mix that matches the alkalinity I'm trying to maintain so it doesn't swing when I do a water change. When my tank was newer and I maintained alk with water changes I used a higher alk salt mix to boost it up and let it fall between water changes.

 

[Calpoly2103]

Alk is more likely to decrease than calc in my experience, but it shouldn't happen at nearly the rate you are seeing. That is part of why some people say you should wait 4 month before adding coral. I was lucky when I set up my first system and alkalinity would drop by less than 0.5dkh per week after the first month. For some people, that process can take much longer.
And I will never say you can't be successful trying to keep coral with a system having that big of a non coral related alkalinity drop but it will make it much more challenging. Especially SPS and LPS.
Otherwise, you have the right idea. Get the tank at an alkalinity you want and then dose as needed to keep it there. If you are dosing, I like to find a salt mix that matches the alkalinity I'm trying to maintain so it doesn't swing when I do a water change. When my tank was newer and I maintained alk with water changes I used a higher alk salt mix to boost it up and let it fall between water changes.

Alk is more likely to decrease than calc in my experience, but it shouldn't happen at nearly the rate you are seeing. That is part of why some people say you should wait 4 month before adding coral. I was lucky when I set up my first system and alkalinity would drop by less than 0.5dkh per week after the first month. For some people, that process can take much longer.
And I will never say you can't be successful trying to keep coral with a system having that big of a non coral related alkalinity drop but it will make it much more challenging. Especially SPS and LPS.
Otherwise, you have the right idea. Get the tank at an alkalinity you want and then dose as needed to keep it there. If you are dosing, I like to find a salt mix that matches the alkalinity I'm trying to maintain so it doesn't swing when I do a water change. When my tank was newer and I maintained alk with water changes I used a higher alk salt mix to boost it up and let it fall between water changes.

I understand completely. I think my initial drop in ALK was due to Red Sea Coral Pro salt starting at 11.5. BRS even did a video that shows it quickly drops after some time.

Looks like I'm heading into a similar path as you did with your newer tank. For now just maintain ALK with water changes using a higher ALK salt, and eventually dose to keep it at an acceptable range.

Thanks.

 

[Brew12]

I understand completely. I think my initial drop in ALK was due to Red Sea Coral Pro salt starting at 11.5. BRS even did a video that shows it quickly drops after some time.

Looks like I'm heading into a similar path as you did with your newer tank. For now just maintain ALK with water changes using a higher ALK salt, and eventually dose to keep it at an acceptable range.

Thanks.

The only thing I would add is to make sure your magnesium stays above 1300 or so to help prevent/reduce precipitation at higher alkalinity.

 

[SPR1968]

The Red Sea Coral Pro mixes to higher levels of foundation elements and I believe the idea is that if you use this salt ‘anyone’ can run a marine tank by doing 10% weekly water changes. The levels are higher, then drop a little, and are then topped back up with the fresh saltwater mix in the water change. It’s not perfect of course but will work for the majority of systems.

The Coral Pro is also good if you follow the Accelerated growth program which I did when I started for over 12 months.

So if you want to maintain stability, which is the key, your going to need to start adding foundation elements individually to maintain the levels. For example Red Sea Foundation A B and C. B is alkalinity

With your size system take a look at ABC + skeletal elements which is a combined version designed for up to 90g systems. Combine this with the Coral Pro and it should make life a little easier for you. Yes you may need to ‘tweek’ the parameters from time to time but it may help while your learning

And your pH is fine, don’t chase that number or any or you will go mad! Lol

 

[Calpoly2103]

The Red Sea Coral Pro mixes to higher levels of foundation elements and I believe the idea is that if you use this salt ‘anyone’ can run a marine tank by doing 10% weekly water changes. The levels are higher, then drop a little, and are then topped back up with the fresh saltwater mix in the water change. It’s not perfect of course but will work for the majority of systems.

The Coral Pro is also good if you follow the Accelerated growth program which I did when I started for over 12 months.

So if you want to maintain stability, which is the key, your going to need to start adding foundation elements individually to maintain the levels. For example Red Sea Foundation A B and C. B is alkalinity

With your size system take a look at ABC + skeletal elements which is a combined version designed for up to 90g systems. Combine this with the Coral Pro and it should make life a little easier for you. Yes you may need to ‘tweek’ the parameters from time to time but it may help while your learning

And your pH is fine, don’t chase that number or any or you will go mad! Lol

Thanks, that's pretty much the reason i went with the Coral Pro. I think when my ALK stabilizes around 9 I will keep it there by dosing.

I ordered the Reef Energy A + B. However, I was planning on using B-Ionic to dose ALK/CAL. Any opinions on the Red Sea Foundation ABC versus the B-Ionic?

 

[SPR1968]

Thanks, that's pretty much the reason i went with the Coral Pro. I think when my ALK stabilizes around 9 I will keep it there by dosing.

I ordered the Reef Energy A + B. However, I was planning on using B-Ionic to dose ALK/CAL. Any opinions on the Red Sea Foundation ABC versus the B-Ionic?

I have used the ABC+ on a smaller tank and yes it works well, but I can’t compare with the B Ionic as I haven’t used it.

I’ve tended to stick with Red Sea products throughout as when I started out I guessed they new more than me! Lol