Ph and ammonia in mailed fish

[Psychonaut]

trying to get a sense of how many people follow the directions from every company that says to drip fish. I’m reading that’s a bad Idea and that’s it’s safer to just match the salinity and temp and add them

But the fish company’s have a financial interest to lose as many fish as possible. If they were worried about that they would probably chance the acclimation instructions right? Am I crazy?

 

[bluprntguy]

I’d add: Float, open bag, dump in a quarantine that’s purposefully lower salinity than normal.
Most fish can handle swings in salinity pretty well.

Here’s a good paper from sustainable aquatics on their procedures
http://www.sustainableaquatics.com/docs/Acclimation-White-Paper.docx

 

[Lasse]

How long is the transport time?

Sinvcerely Lasse

 

[Psychonaut]

My average transport time is about 17-20 hours but who knows how long they sit in the bag before UPS picks them up. And for the record I have done the match salinity temp and drop method every time except 1 and on that one time i dropped a mccoskers wrasse the fish looked great day 1, sat listlessly on bottom of tank day 2 and dead day 3


So my real question is that if these company’s have an invested interest in keeping these guys alive so they don’t have to refund for dead fish, why do the recommend the other way? I even contacted live aquaria about this and they guy sounded like he had never even heard what I was talking about. They literally won’t refund a dead fish if you DONT drip acclimate

 

[Tamberav]

I just match salinity in the QT and dump them in. Doesn't seem to cause problems.

 

[Tamberav]

My average transport time is about 17-20 hours but who knows how long they sit in the bag before UPS picks them up. And for the record I have don’t the match salinity temp and drop method every time except 1 and on that one time the fish looked great day 1, sat listlessly on bottom of tank day 2 and dead day 3


So my real question is that if these company’s have an invested interest in keeping these guys alive so they don’t have to refund for dead fish, why do the recommend the other way? I even contacted live aquaria about this and they guy sounded like he had never even heard what I was talking about. They literally won’t refund a dead fish if you DONT drip acclimate

They have never asked me about my acclimation procedures.

 

[bluprntguy]

My average transport time is about 17-20 hours but who knows how long they sit in the bag before UPS picks them up. And for the record I have done the match salinity temp and drop method every time except 1 and on that one time i dropped a mccoskers wrasse the fish looked great day 1, sat listlessly on bottom of tank day 2 and dead day 3


So my real question is that if these company’s have an invested interest in keeping these guys alive so they don’t have to refund for dead fish, why do the recommend the other way? I even contacted live aquaria about this and they guy sounded like he had never even heard what I was talking about. They literally won’t refund a dead fish if you DONT drip acclimate

A fish shipped overnight isn’t likely to be a problem either way. It tends to be an issue when fish are transported from across the globe. They may be in those bags for a few days.

 

[Psychonaut]

@Bulk Reef Supply this would be a pretty darn useful investigates episode

 

[Lowell Lemon]

It would be better to check the PH in the bag first before starting the process. Lower PH actually prevents the ammonia level from being as toxic to the fish. If your raise the PH to fast the fish goes into a type of toxic shock. Best practice is to allow the PH to rise over a 24 hour period after a long shipping time. My customer's used a CO2 injection into a holding tank to match the PH, temp, and salinity to the water in the bags. They just reduced the injection rate and slowly raised the PH to the correct level. The acclimation tank already had active biofiltration before receiving the shipment. That is how the big operations do it.

Drip acclimation works only if the water in the bag is not too toxic from fish waste and you are removing water as you input new water. My drip acclimation table uses small cube tanks with overflows into a waste receptacle. So, the water is slowly changed over time and the toxic level diminishes as the PH slowly rises. Just adding water to the bag is not proper drip acclimation without waste water removal.

 

[Lasse]

All transport over 20 hours should not be handled the normal recommende procedure IMO

I’d add: Float, open bag, dump in a quarantine that’s purposefully lower salinity than normal.
Most fish can handle swings in salinity pretty well.

Here’s a good paper from sustainable aquatics on their procedures
http://www.sustainableaquatics.com/docs/Acclimation-White-Paper.docx

Very good readings - one of the best I have read about this issue (and I have read a lot about it) However - IMO the use of HCl in order to lower the pH is overkill. It is enough to take down the pH with CO2 (in the recieving water) to below 7 just put in the fish like @Lowell Lemon says in the quote below

It would be better to check the PH in the bag first before starting the process. Lower PH actually prevents the ammonia level from being as toxic to the fish. If your raise the PH to fast the fish goes into a type of toxic shock. Best practice is to allow the PH to rise over a 24 hour period after a long shipping time. My customer's used a CO2 injection into a holding tank to match the PH, temp, and salinity to the water in the bags. They just reduced the injection rate and slowly raised the PH to the correct level. The acclimation tank already had active biofiltration before receiving the shipment. That is how the big operations do it.

Drip acclimation works only if the water in the bag is not too toxic from fish waste and you are removing water as you input new water. My drip acclimation table uses small cube tanks with overflows into a waste receptacle. So, the water is slowly changed over time and the toxic level diminishes as the PH slowly rises. Just adding water to the bag is not proper drip acclimation without waste water removal.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lowell Lemon]

I’d add: Float, open bag, dump in a quarantine that’s purposefully lower salinity than normal.
Most fish can handle swings in salinity pretty well.

Here’s a good paper from sustainable aquatics on their procedures
http://www.sustainableaquatics.com/docs/Acclimation-White-Paper.docx

Excellent write up and very good information. If you follow these methods you will have great success.