PH highest at night and early morning?

[EakTheFreak]

I’ve attached a photo of my PH through Apex. I do carbon dose @ 7:00 am but that is because my PH is the highest at that point.

This doesn’t make sense to me as I always believed PH was higher during the day? I run a refugium throughout the night with fern Caulerpa.

Curious to hear your thoughts @Randy Holmes-Farley

 

[lapin]

My Ph is highest early morning before carbon dosing

 

[Garf]

My ph is highest at night because we have all gone to bed, and I add kalk at night.

 

[EakTheFreak]

My Ph is highest early morning before carbon dosing

Interesting, is there an advantage to carbon dosing in the am? I just starting doing it then because my PH seemed to hit its high!

 

[J1a]

I’ve attached a photo of my PH through Apex. I do carbon dose @ 7:00 am but that is because my PH is the highest at that point.

This doesn’t make sense to me as I always believed PH was higher during the day? I run a refugium throughout the night with fern Caulerpa.

Curious to hear your thoughts @Randy Holmes-Farley

In this case photosynthesis from your refugium is using up CO2 faster than your fully lit DT.

Nothing wrong with this.

 

[Garf]

In this case photosynthesis from your refugium is using up CO2 faster than your fully lit DT.

Nothing wrong with this.

I hate fleshy algae photosynthesis in reef tanks, but I’m on my own it seems.

 

[EakTheFreak]

In this case photosynthesis from your refugium is using up CO2 faster than your fully lit DT.

Nothing wrong with this.

Seems crazy at it only has a few different Caulerpa species in it.

 

[Oregon Grown Reef]

I hate fleshy algae photosynthesis in reef tanks, but I’m on my own it seems.

You're the one that brought it to my attention. Completely changed the course of my next build and how I do reefing. I'm a Berlin method reefer for life now. Auto water changes, a good skimmer, a sump filled with rock, carbon/gfo reactors, and auto filter rollers.

 

[SteveMM62Reef]

Is your Aquarium in a different part of the house, far away from the sleeping area? Even with pumping outside air into the skimmer, I noticed my pH can drop slightly , if a bunch of people are in the Basement, near the Aquarium.

 

[EakTheFreak]

Is your Aquarium in a different part of the house, far away from the sleeping area? Even with pumping outside air into the skimmer, I noticed my pH can drop slightly , if a bunch of people are in the Basement, near the Aquarium.

Yeah, my aquarium is in my family room where we and my family spend the most time. It is probably an abundance of CO2 in the air from myself, wife, child & dog and then since we all leave that room it skyrockets up.

 

[J1a]

I hate fleshy algae photosynthesis in reef tanks, but I’m on my own it seems.

I dislike macro algae as well. I know many have success using them, but I really don't want them competiting with my corals and clams for nutrients in the water.

Also, some algae produces allelopathic chemicals to inhibit coral growth.

 

[Oregon Grown Reef]

I dislike macro algae as well. I know many have success using them, but I really don't want them competiting with my corals and clams for nutrients in the water.

Also, some algae produces allelopathic chemicals to inhibit coral growth.

Fleshy algae has been shown to cause coral mortality due to causing a shift in the microbial population. This is because of the large amounts of doc produced. Calciferous algaes like coralline produce much less and are likely remineralizing at a proper rate without causing huge shifts because of this.

(PDF) Macroalgal release of dissolved organic carbon in coral reef and its interaction with the bacteria associated with the coral Porites lutea

PDF | Macroalgae supersede corals in the reefs worldwide, converting the coral-dominant systems into algal-dominant ones. Dissolved organic carbon (DOC)... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

 

[Oregon Grown Reef]

In this case photosynthesis from your refugium is using up CO2 faster than your fully lit DT.

Nothing wrong with this.

It was shown in another study (not the one referred in my post above) that by having high amounts of co2 present, the fleshy algaes produced significantly more doc than in lower co2 systems.

CO2 Enrichment Stimulates Dissolved Organic Carbon Release in Coral Reef Macroalgae - PubMed

Dissolved organic carbon (DOC) released by macroalgae is important in the context of coral reef degradation as it contributes to coral mortality by promoting bacterial metabolism on the coral surface. Using experimental carbon dioxide (CO₂ ) manipulations in outdoor flow-through...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Oregon Grown Reef]

I totally stole those links from @Garf.

 

[EakTheFreak]

It was shown in another study (not the one referred in my post above) that by having high amounts of co2 present, the fleshy algaes produced significantly more doc than in lower co2 systems.

[URL

I totally stole those links from @Garf.

so dissolved organic carbon’s create bacteria on corals. Would that mean ditching macroalgae could prove beneficial for coral?

 

[Oregon Grown Reef]

Not just on the coral surface, but the surface of everything water touches. In the first study, it says that having a stable bacterial population has been shown to help protect corals against heat waves and acidification. This is why I'll never think about using it again. It also means I'll be aggressively removing any algae that may start to form. A little elbow grease never hurt anyone in this hobby.

 

[Jonify]

Lots of variables ... there could be less CO2 in that room at night, which will raise pH with adequate tank aeration (when you go to bed, the CO2 you exhale goes with you, so less will be in the air of your tank's room). Your AC/heat might be kicking on at night, so the slight negative pressure may pull in fresh air from your home's cracks. You might be dosing Alk primarily at night, from either brands that use carbonate additives or from kalkwasser. Your refugium might be on at night. There could be lots of reasons, and some may compound enough to overcome the pH bump you get from daytime photosynthesis, especially if your daytime home's CO2 level gets fairly high. The nightly pH dip isn't always the rule, but it's certainly an unusual experience

 

[damsels are not mean]

Fleshy algae has been shown to cause coral mortality due to causing a shift in the microbial population. This is because of the large amounts of doc produced. Calciferous algaes like coralline produce much less and are likely remineralizing at a proper rate without causing huge shifts because of this.

(PDF) Macroalgal release of dissolved organic carbon in coral reef and its interaction with the bacteria associated with the coral Porites lutea

PDF | Macroalgae supersede corals in the reefs worldwide, converting the coral-dominant systems into algal-dominant ones. Dissolved organic carbon (DOC)... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

I may be just bad at reading comprehension (probably true) but the abstract says:

"There was no apparent change in the dominant bacterial groups exposed to the DOC released by the green macroalgae Caulerpa racemosa and Halimeda sp. In comparison, the Proteobacteria group decreased with a prominent increase in the Firmicutes, Planctomycetes, and Bacteroidetes group in the samples exposed to DOC released by the brown macroalgae Turbinaria ornata, Sargassum tenerrimum, and Padina gymnospora."

Unless I am misunderstanding their results, it seems that this concern does not apply to us because nobody keeps the ones that had an effect on corals and the ones that had no effect are some of the most popular in the hobby.

 

[Oregon Grown Reef]

I may be just bad at reading comprehension (probably true) but the abstract says:

"There was no apparent change in the dominant bacterial groups exposed to the DOC released by the green macroalgae Caulerpa racemosa and Halimeda sp. In comparison, the Proteobacteria group decreased with a prominent increase in the Firmicutes, Planctomycetes, and Bacteroidetes group in the samples exposed to DOC released by the brown macroalgae Turbinaria ornata, Sargassum tenerrimum, and Padina gymnospora."

Unless I am misunderstanding their results, it seems that this concern does not apply to us because nobody keeps the ones that had an effect on corals and the ones that had no effect are some of the most popular in the hobby.

You're not incorrect in that those 2 green algaes produce less doc, but they are still producers. The 2nd study I linked showed that a red macro produced significant amounts of doc in a system with higher amounts of co2, but others didn't. We know hobbyists keep red macro. The study is not all inclusive in which algaes we hobbyists use, but it begs the questions on does a macro refugium cause more issues than it solves? Are higher nitrates and phosphates more likely to cause issues than high levels of DOC from not doing water changes? Even if the doc produced is less, if you're not doing water changes or sufficient doc removal, that will result in a rise over time. It may not be the sky is falling thing that I may think it is, but I know I'll never have to worry about it since I don't have macro in my tanks. At best, with water changes and other methods of doc removal (skimmer, activated carbon), you won't have issues or know it's something that's a problem. At worst, you get a tank that gets wiped out from it. I'm going to play it safe.

 

[Oregon Grown Reef]

Curious as to those who use the triton method and also use the NDOC test regularly what the recommended actions are if you are found to have high levels of DOC. How often do you have to take those actions?