Ph Issues... Performed Randy's Aeration Test....

DarthSimon · Aug 22, 2017

Hey Guys,
So I have a 3 month old Red Sea Reefer 250, with Mixed reef and fish.... Have mostly LPS, Softies, and a 2 Small Pieces of SPS. My corals seem to be happy and healthy. Tank Parms are as follows:

PH 7.7(3am) to 7.9(6pm End Photo Period)
Kh 10-11
Calcium 440-450
Nitrate 0-.01
Phosphate .03
Magnesium 1350.

I feel my Ph should be higher. I have never had a tank in the past with 7.7
Using Full Blown Apex System with DOS. Running 2 Part Bionic Dosing all Day 25ml of each
Seems to be my dosing number keep above Kh and Calcium Stable with current coral load.

So performed Aeration test from Randy's ReefKeeper Page. Took cup of tank water 7.8 outside house and ran air stone for 60 minutes. Brought back in house and dipped my Ph probe in cup. Got 8.1 reading. I then took another cup of tank water and and did same test inside house, inside my cabinet close to where sump is. After hour Ph went from 7.86 to 7.88 with Infused (Airstone) under the tank house air.

So according to test, tank aeration has no benifit. Co2 issue present....
Problem is I ran an a fresh airline from outside house directly into my Skimmer. Icecap 120. According to my Apex, pre airline my lows during dark periods at night were about 7.65 . Highs during photo period 7.7. Post airline is lows 7.75 to and highs are 7.9 to 7.94. So a .1 Difference??

Am I doing something wrong? Is it possible the skimmer isn't strong enough?
Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Steve

oceanfreak09 · Aug 23, 2017

The only thing I would like to warn you about is, when running your skimmer airline outside, be sure to turn off your skimmer if you or a lawn service will be spraying any pesticides or anything bad by the intake. (I was talking to a fellow Reefer about a week ago and heard a horror story about someones fully loaded coral reef that was poisoned and crashed due to this happening) just wanted to warn you cause if that happened, your ph would be the least of your worries. [emoji2]

DarthSimon · Aug 23, 2017

So I ran the same air stone on my sump last night. Air bubbles not an issue. There's a built in bubble trap in Red Sea sump. Ph didn't change at all with stone.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Aug 23, 2017

The think that limits the effectiveness of an airline outside or a CO2 scrubber on a skimmer inlet is the aeration happening at the tank top (and possibly elsewhere) with high CO2 home air, competing with aeration in the skimmer of lower CO2 air.

DarthSimon · Aug 23, 2017

Hi Randy,
So are you saying the aeration on top of tank competes with fresh air mixing with skimmer? Also is it possible that my skimmer is not pulling enough fresh air?

Here are specs on skimmer? Is air intake low?

Empress · Aug 23, 2017

DarthSimon said:
Hi Randy,
So are you saying the aeration on top of tank competes with fresh air mixing with skimmer? Also is it possible that my skimmer is not pulling enough fresh air?

Here are specs on skimmer? Is air intake low?

I too would like to know the answer to this. Excellent question Darth.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Aug 23, 2017

They absolutely compete. I can't say in your case, but you don't want to limit air flow to the skimmer.

DarthSimon · Aug 23, 2017

Randy,
Do the specs on my skimmer which state 400 iph/ 14SCFH sound like it's pulling enough air? Would a skimmer that has 2 times that pull help my ph?

Doing your test using an air stone with the outside air raised the pH to 8.1. So the air outside seems to work.... ???

Empress · Aug 23, 2017

Is it possible to have TOO much air going into a skimmer?

I have mine connected to a tube out the window and the best pH reading I can get is 8.0 in the middle of the day.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Aug 23, 2017

DarthSimon said:
Randy,
Do the specs on my skimmer which state 400 iph/ 14SCFH sound like it's pulling enough air? Would a skimmer that has 2 times that pull help my ph?

Doing your test using an air stone with the outside air raised the pH to 8.1. So the air outside seems to work.... ???

Clearly the issue is indoor CO2.

I can't say in any given case how much the tank top aerates relative to the skimmer. Too many variables, but the tank top can be significant. You do need to make sure the air flow to the skimmer is not lessened by the tubing bringing in the outside air.

rob safron · Aug 23, 2017

I have been fighting the same thing for some time now. My low Ph goes to 7.65 and at end of photo period I am getting around 8.0. I have tried everything, have a window right next to the tank and left it open all day and night even though it's 90 outside. I currently run my skimmer to a CO2 scrubber which is also plumbed outside. Probably would go lower than 7.65 without it but not happy being that low. I give up. Hoping Fall weather will help.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Aug 23, 2017

Empress said:
Is it possible to have TOO much air going into a skimmer?

I have mine connected to a tube out the window and the best pH reading I can get is 8.0 in the middle of the day.

Too much is not a concern unless it is so much it is impacting the ability to form a foam.

roberthu526 · Aug 23, 2017

Do you have a glass top or screen top? If you have a screen top then try a glass top for a few days. I have noticed my ph drop after I switched a quarter of my tank cover from glass to screen due to temperature issues. The ph dropped by 0.1 on average.

Empress · Aug 23, 2017

rob safron said:
I have been fighting the same thing for some time now. My low Ph goes to 7.65 and at end of photo period I am getting around 8.0. I have tried everything, have a window right next to the tank and left it open all day and night even though it's 90 outside. I currently run my skimmer to a CO2 scrubber which is also plumbed outside. Probably would go lower than 7.65 without it but not happy being that low. I give up. Hoping Fall weather will help.

My lows drop down to 7.5 - 7.6 at night too even with the tube directly from the skimmer out the window. Lows drop to 60 degrees at night.

So I took the tube off and just kept the windows open to see if that would work. Nada. I get the same pH readings no matter what I try.

Windows open, windows closed, fans on, fans off, dogs out of the room, fine tuning the skimmer knob, took the skimmer apart and cleaned it out, cleaned the pH probe and recalibrated it using new packets of fluid, tested with liquid test kit, added limewater; have light on fuge at night, power heads and Gyre pointing at the surface, you name it...I've tried it all.

I just want my pH too remain between 7.9 at night and 8.3 during the day. Why is this so hard?

brandon429 · Aug 23, 2017

I would really enjoy seeing the testing and comparison of non reef water here, a pitcher of freshly made SW in fact (but aged long enough for good dissolution)

since it has no respiration going on within, am curious to see how the biological component of the actual aquarium might be setting ph maximums given all other variables in place. that might not even matter, but it came to mind. alongside what this reef is doing, id like to know what a pitcher of clean sw does day to day same testing same house and variables.

rob safron · Aug 23, 2017

Yep. I also added Kalk to my top off water. Even when I chased the Ph and added stuff to increase it to 8.2 it drops right back down

Randy Holmes-Farley · Aug 23, 2017

brandon429 said:
I would really enjoy seeing the testing and comparison of non reef water here, a pitcher of freshly made SW in fact (but aged long enough for good dissolution)

since it has no respiration going on within, am curious to see how the biological component of the actual aquarium might be setting ph maximums given all other variables in place. that might not even matter, but it came to mind. alongside what this reef is doing, id like to know what a pitcher of clean sw does day to day same testing same house and variables.

I have done such tests with outside air, but not inside.

DarthSimon · Aug 23, 2017

I had a custom lid built for my Reefer 250 by a Custom Acrylic. Its mostly mesh material so air goes right through....

DarthSimon · Aug 23, 2017

So I'm going with this skimmer, looks like air intake pull is more than double what I have. Not happy with my skimmer anyhow. 900 on air.

Albert bada · Aug 23, 2017

The least you mess with it the better you're tank will be at least for me I'm running my 65 gallon with live rock, corals and fish and my parameters are fine. I think it all comes down to water quality and maintenance just keep it clean and you should be ok.

Hope this helps