pH or alk?

cpschult

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I’ve got a 25 gallon nano that I’ve been dosing kalk every 30 minutes on, 450ml a day. Alk is steady at 7.8dkh. My pH swing from night to day is pretty big though.

Would it make sense to only dose kalkwasser at night to reduce pH swing, or does it make more sense to just leave it to keep alk steadier? I’ve never had a tank this small so I’m not sure. It’s mainly a mushroom/softie tank with a few sps. I have considered adding an algae reactor or small Santa Monica scrubber as well.

Thanks for any input!
0D0E2534-B704-40B7-BBA8-FF3D39133AA2.png
 
I’ve got a 25 gallon nano that I’ve been dosing kalk every 30 minutes on, 450ml a day. Alk is steady at 7.8dkh. My pH swing from night to day is pretty big though.

Would it make sense to only dose kalkwasser at night to reduce pH swing, or does it make more sense to just leave it to keep alk steadier? I’ve never had a tank this small so I’m not sure. It’s mainly a mushroom/softie tank with a few sps. I have considered adding an algae reactor or small Santa Monica scrubber as well.

Thanks for any input!
0D0E2534-B704-40B7-BBA8-FF3D39133AA2.png
I would consider stable alk more important than stable pH.

Do you run a skimmer on this system?
 
If your tank looks good leave it. Outside air is always good when in the winter and summer if the house is closed up because of Co2 build up. Chasing Ph for most, is a losing race.
 
I do not. I am close to an outside wall so I could bring in some air if I need to.
I wasn't even considering outside air at this point. You may get more stable pH by increasing gas exchange with an airstone. I would try that with indoor air first.

If your tank looks good leave it. Outside air is always good when in the winter and summer if the house is closed up because of Co2 build up. Chasing Ph for most, is a losing race.
Completely agree that chasing pH isn't worth it for the most part.
 
Another way to stabilize ph would be to have a refugium with chaeto that runs on a light opposite of the display.
 
Another way to stabilize ph would be to have a refugium with chaeto that runs on a light opposite of the display.

That’s what I was thinking about doing algae reactor.

I’m mainly concerned my pH is down towards when corals can start to dissolve (7.6)
 
Your pH low, if accurate, may be a concern. I personally would do something about it. What is the daily alk demand?

I’m using a broadley James ph probe hooked up to apex. Calibrated in the last two months.

I’m dosing 450ml kalkwasser a day. I’m in the car so I don’t have the math I had done for alk consumption available. I can get it in a few hours.
 
That’s not enough limewater to get much pH boost from it, but it will certainly give some. It also is not a big alk boost. I’d consider adding most of at night because the alk change will be low.
 
That’s not enough limewater to get much pH boost from it, but it will certainly give some. It also is not a big alk boost. I’d consider adding most of at night because the alk change will be low.

My dkh usage is around .25 a day per my dosing schedule.
 
My dkh usage is around .25 a day per my dosing schedule.

Right, and that is not enough (IMO) to worry about exactly when you are dosing it from an alk stability perspective. :)
 
Okay great. At what dkh would reef suffer?

Thanks!

Not sure what you mean. High? Low? Variable?

here's one of my discussions of alk issues:

Optimal Parameters for a Coral Reef Aquarium: By Randy Holmes-Farley
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/o...-reef-aquarium-by-randy-holmes-farley.173563/

Alkalinity

Like calcium, many corals also use "alkalinity" to form their skeletons, which are composed primarily of calcium carbonate. It is generally believed that corals take up bicarbonate, convert it into carbonate, and then use that carbonate to form calcium carbonate skeletons. That conversion process is shown as:

HCO3- → CO3-- + H+

Bicarbonate → Carbonate + proton (which is released from the coral)

To ensure that corals have an adequate supply of bicarbonate for calcification, aquarists could just measure bicarbonate directly. Designing a test kit for bicarbonate, however, is somewhat more complicated than for alkalinity. Consequently, the use of alkalinity as a surrogate measure for bicarbonate is deeply entrenched in the reef aquarium hobby.

So, what is alkalinity? Alkalinity in a marine aquarium is simply a measure of the amount of acid (H+) required to reduce the pH to about 4.5, where all bicarbonate is converted into carbonic acid as follows:

HCO3- + H+ → H2CO3

The amount of acid needed is equal to the amount of bicarbonate present, so when performing an alkalinity titration with a test kit, you are “counting†the number of bicarbonate ions present. It is not, however, quite that simple since some other ions also take up acid during the titration. Both borate and carbonate also contribute to the measurement of alkalinity, but the bicarbonate dominates these other ions since they are generally lower in concentration than bicarbonate. So knowing the total alkalinity is akin to, but not exactly the same as, knowing how much bicarbonate is available to corals. In any case, total alkalinity is the standard that aquarists use for this purpose.

Unlike the calcium concentration, it is widely believed that certain organisms calcify more quickly at alkalinity levels higher than those in normal seawater. This result has also been demonstrated in the scientific literature, which has shown that adding bicarbonate to seawater increases the rate of calcification in some corals. Uptake of bicarbonate can consequently become rate limiting in many corals. This may be partly due to the fact that the external bicarbonate concentration is not large to begin with (relative to, for example, the calcium concentration, which is effectively about 5 times higher).

For these reasons, alkalinity maintenance is a critical aspect of coral reef aquarium husbandry. In the absence of supplementation, alkalinity will rapidly drop as corals use up much of what is present in seawater. Water changes are not usually sufficient to maintain alkalinity unless there is very little calcification taking place. Most reef aquarists try to maintain alkalinity at levels at or slightly above those of normal seawater, although exactly what levels different aquarists target depends a bit on the goals of their aquaria.

Interestingly, because some corals may calcify faster at higher alkalinity levels, and because the abiotic (nonbiological) precipitation of calcium carbonate on heaters and pumps also rises as alkalinity rises, the demand for alkalinity (and calcium) rises as the alkalinity rises. So an aquarist generally must dose more calcium and alkalinity EVERY DAY to maintain a higher alkalinity (say, 11 dKH) than to maintain 7 dKH. It is not just a one-time boost that is needed to make up that difference. In fact, calcification gets so slow as the alkalinity drops below 6 dKH that reef aquaria rarely get much below that point, even with no dosing: natural calcification has nearly stopped at that level.

In general, I suggest that aquarists maintain alkalinity between about 7-11 dKH (2.5 and 4 meq/L; 125-200 ppm CaCO3 equivalents). Many aquarists growing SPS corals and using Ultra Low Nutrient Systems (ULNS) have found that the corals suffer from “burnt tips†if the alkalinity is too high or changes too much. It is not at all clear why this is the case, but such aquaria are better served by alkalinity in the 7-8 dKH range.
As mentioned above, alkalinity levels above those in natural seawater increase the abiotic precipitation of calcium carbonate on warm objects such as heaters and pump impellers, or sometimes even in sand beds. This precipitation not only wastes calcium and alkalinity that aquarists are carefully adding, but it also increases equipment maintenance requirements and can “damage†a sand bed, hardening it into a chunk of limestone. When elevated alkalinity is driving this precipitation, it can also depress the calcium level. An excessively high alkalinity level can therefore create undesirable consequences.

I suggest that aquarists use a balanced calcium and alkalinity additive system of some sort for routine maintenance. The most popular of these balanced methods include limewater (kalkwasser), calcium carbonate/carbon dioxide reactors, and the two-part/three part additive systems.

For rapid alkalinity corrections, aquarists can simply use baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) or washing soda (sodium carbonate; baked baking soda) to good effect. The latter raises pH as well as alkalinity while the former has a very small pH lowering effect. Mixtures can also be used, and are what many hobby chemical supply companies sell as “buffersâ€. Most often, sodium carbonate is preferred, however, since most tanks can be helped by a pH boost.
 
Sorry, I should have been more specific.

As my needs grow when do I need to switch to dosing around the clock to avoid the alkalinity swing from being to great due to only dosing during the night time (my attempt to balance pH with dosing kalk only at night).

Having to dose in the nano certainly complicates things!

Here is pH with change to dosing kalk at night for last two nights.
72F5F42D-00C0-41A9-A3FA-D7B0BC65022D.png
 
Definitely a little better!
I know alk swings of 0.5dkh in a day aren't uncommon in the hobby. Some people have swings of over 1dkh and seem to get away with it. I think it may be because their corals adapt since the swing is the same every day. Just a guess though.
 

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