PH Potassium hydroxide and TLF PH Balance Q

[authentic]

Aficianado posted a video with ACI aquaculture discusing the use of potassium hydroxide to raise ph and additional benefits of stabilizing alk,mg and calcium as well as added potassium.Although it looks interesting i am not going to attempt using such a hazardous chemical in my tank.Toward the end of the video he mentions TLF PH Balance saying the potassium hydroxide is one of the three ingredients. I am looking to raise my ph and have tried most other methods with little success. will ph balance do the trick?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

pH "balancing" is an utter misconception, likely driven by false claims from Brightwell selling such a product in the name Boost pH+

Hydroxide is a fine, but potent way to supplement alkalinity. It has about twice the pH boost per unit of alkalinity added as carbonate. It is used in my DIY two part, and in kalkwasser/limewater.

It makes no difference whether you use sodium hydroxide (as in my high pH DIY two part systems) or potassium hydroxide (assuming you know you want potassium).

Potassium will rise rapidly using KOH, and I do not recommend it unless you are carefully monitoring potassium.

Here's one of the high pH two parts using hydroxide:

New DIY Two Part Recipes with Higher pH Boost

Here's a first crack at what may end up being multiple possible recipes for a DIY two part that either has a higher pH or can be made more concentrated than traditional two part recipes. This one has about twice the pH raising effect compared to a carbonate based two part, per unit of...

www.reef2reef.com

and

Second New DIY Two Part Recipe with Higher pH Boost

In a previous thread, I posted a true two part DIY recipe: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-diy-two-part-recipes-with-higher-ph-boost.344500/ But some folks may want to just swap the new ingredient into my 2/3 part recipe (as used by BRS, for example). Here's the original recipe link...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[tapeworm123]

pH "balancing" is an utter misconception, likely driven by false claims from Brightwell selling such a product in the name Boost pH+

Hydroxide is a fine, but potent way to supplement alkalinity. It has about twice the pH boost per unit of alkalinity added as carbonate. It is used in my DIY two part, and in kalkwasser/limewater.

It makes no difference whether you use sodium hydroxide (as in my high pH DIY two part systems) or potassium hydroxide (assuming you know you want potassium).

Potassium will rise rapidly using KOH, and I do not recommend it unless you are carefully monitoring potassium.

Here's one of the high pH two parts using hydroxide:

New DIY Two Part Recipes with Higher pH Boost

Here's a first crack at what may end up being multiple possible recipes for a DIY two part that either has a higher pH or can be made more concentrated than traditional two part recipes. This one has about twice the pH raising effect compared to a carbonate based two part, per unit of...

www.reef2reef.com

and

Second New DIY Two Part Recipe with Higher pH Boost

In a previous thread, I posted a true two part DIY recipe: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-diy-two-part-recipes-with-higher-ph-boost.344500/ But some folks may want to just swap the new ingredient into my 2/3 part recipe (as used by BRS, for example). Here's the original recipe link...

www.reef2reef.com

@Randy Holmes can you please read my comment and let me know if this sounds right from what he said in the video ? I’m narcosis corals

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

What comment?

Can you tell me where in the video? I do not have time to watch a half hour video.

 

[Ocelaris]

I watched the video over two days, and I think Chris stressed 100 times, this not for anyone to try unless you've exhausted EVERY other avenue. He also noted that he went back to Kalkwasser primarily because KOH boosted Potassium too much, and just used a very tiny amount.

Please, please do not try this. This is not a joke of a chemical. He noted that he was absolutely covered in protective gear and a respirator and could have safely handled Ebola. Realistically you would need a vent hood to mix this.

Please try these first:

1) Refugium
2) Kalkwasser
3) Airline Outside to skimmer
4) HRV/ERV
5) Randy's high PH 2 Part or just switching to carbonate dosing instead of bicarbonate

More details about your setup, things you've tried would be required before it would be worth having a conversation about this. You can easily hit 8.3 to 8.5 with the above options. Chris's situation was different because he was already in an open air system with a many thousand gallon system.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I really cannot see a reason to use potassium hydroxide since high quality sodium hydroxide is cheap and better (IMO).

 

[tapeworm123]

Ok story short do you think you will get more alk out of kalk by carbon dioxide dosing ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Ok story short do you think you will get more alk out of kalk by carbon dioxide dosing ?

No, there's no reason to dose CO2. Rarely does the pH get too high (the only reason to dose CO2) and simple aeration will reduce the pH if it is too high. People who suggest CO2 is "needed" do not understand the chemistry.

 

[Reefahholic]

I really don't understand the draw to Potassium Hydroxide. The pH of Calcium Hydroxide (Kalkwasser) is already about 12.4. From what I saw....the pH of Potassium Hydroxide is only about 13-14. That's really not a huge difference IMO.

@Randy Holmes-Farley do you happen to know the pH of fully saturated KOH? Isn't it around 14 max? Thx.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I really don't understand the draw to Potassium Hydroxide. The pH of Calcium Hydroxide (Kalkwasser) is already about 12.4. From what I saw....the pH of Potassium Hydroxide is only about 13-14. That's really not a huge difference IMO.

@Randy Holmes-Farley do you happen to know the pH of fully saturated KOH? Isn't it around 14 max? Thx.

If one chooses to dose hydroxide as a high pH alkalinity supplement, it makes zero difference to either of those two aspects whether one is dosing sodium, potassium, or calcium hydroxide.

The pH of the additive is determined solely by the concentration fo teh hydroxide in it. Caclium hydroxide 9kalkwasseer) is solubility limited, so must be more dilute. If you made sodium or potassium hydroxide to that same dilution, the pH would be essentially the same (a minor difference for chemistry nerds relating to the formation CaOH+ ion in the kalkwasser, reducing the pH a tad).

 

[Reefahholic]

If one chooses to dose hydroxide as a high pH alkalinity supplement, it makes zero difference to either of those two aspects whether one is dosing sodium, potassium, or calcium hydroxide.

The pH of the additive is determined solely by the concentration fo teh hydroxide in it. Caclium hydroxide 9kalkwasseer) is solubility limited, so must be more dilute. If you made sodium or potassium hydroxide to that same dilution, the pH would be essentially the same (a minor difference for chemistry nerds relating to the formation CaOH+ ion in the kalkwasser, reducing the pH a tad).

So if you make it less dilute, how high do you think you can get the pH. What would be the max pH? I thought that KOH is somewhat solubility limited as well.?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

So if you make it less dilute, how high do you think you can get the pH. What would be the max pH? I thought that KOH is somewhat solubility limited as well.?

No, it isn't really.

I would not recommend dosing concentrated KOH or NaOH, but the solubilities are very high.

KOH: ~121 g/100 mL water at 25 deg C

NaOH: ~100 g/100 ml water

Both have pH way above 14. Likely in the pH 15-16 range.

 

[Reefahholic]

No, it isn't really.

I would not recommend dosing concentrated KOH or NaOH, but the solubilities are very high.

KOH: ~121 g/100 mL water at 25 deg C

NaOH: ~100 g/100 ml water

Both have pH way above 14. Likely in the pH 15-16 range.

I don’t plan too. Was just curious how high. I could see this maybe helping a coral farm, but the potassium would creep up. When you spike the water that aggressively, you’re loosing stability.

 

[Reefahholic]

No, it isn't really.

I would not recommend dosing concentrated KOH or NaOH, but the solubilities are very high.

KOH: ~121 g/100 mL water at 25 deg C

NaOH: ~100 g/100 ml water

Both have pH way above 14. Likely in the pH 15-16 range.

Can you post a link showing that pH range when you get time. The highest I could find was a pH of 14.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Can you post a link showing that pH range when you get time. The highest I could find was a pH of 14.

People often mistakenly think the pH scale runs from 0-14. It doesn't.

A pH of 14 means a 1 M hydroxide solution. pH 15 means a 10 M hydroxide solution. pH 16 means 100 M hydroxide (no real thing is that high in actual concentration, but for other reasons the pH can be).

The molar concentration of saturated KOH is about 11.7, giving it an estimated pH between 15 and 16,

https://www.nestgrp.com/protocols/trng/molarity.shtml

but the pH is not actually based on concentration but the chemical activity, and in very concentrated KOH, there is not much water left, a and the hydroxide ion is more "active" than it is when diluted more in water, so the activity and pH is actually higher (see below)


This study actually measures the pH in strong KOH solutions:

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/ac50001a045

"In this study, the range of glass electrode aqueous pH measurements is extended to pH 17.6. ....... yields at 25.0 OC pH values of 15.6, 16.6, and 17.6 for 7.5, 12, and 17.5 m KOH solutions"

 

[tapeworm123]

What do you think in kalk gives you the alk? Carbon dioxide turning in to alk? How ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

What do you think in kalk gives you the alk? Carbon dioxide turning in to alk? How ?

This concern is a long standing, and incorrect, myth in the hobby.

Hydroxide provides alkalinity perfectly well. It is built into the definition of total alkalinity. You could also do a salifert alk test on kalkwasser and get the correct answer.

That said, the instant you add hydroxide to seawater, nearly all of it instantly converts bicarbonate into carbonate, so it is not like hydroxide is accumulating to any significant extent (of course it rises a little as the pH rises, no matter how you get there):

HCO3- + OH- --> CO3-- + H2O

This article shows the definition of alkalinity and what exactly it means:

Chemistry and the Aquarium: What is Alkalinity?

Randy provides an overview of alkalinity as to why it's important, how it's measured, and how can it be tested.

reefs.com

Here is the defining equation for total alkalinity (TA) in normal seawater:

TA = [HCO3–] + 2[CO3--] + [B(OH)4–] + [OH–] + [Si(OH)3O–] + [MgOH+] + [HPO4--] + 2[PO4---] – [H+]

 

[tapeworm123]

Is kalk a infinite loop then you raise the ph causing stony corals too grow faster using the alkalinity faster then it can dose it by it self ? When I dose it to my tank it makes my alk drop tested by the alk Hanna checker, what can cause this ?

 

[tapeworm123]

Is kalk a infinite loop then you raise the ph causing stony corals too grow faster using the alkalinity faster then it can dose it by it self ? When I dose it to my tank it makes my alk drop tested by the alk Hanna checker, what can cause this ?

I dose it with a doser 10 mils ever ten mins, full solution 2 tsp per gallon.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Is kalk a infinite loop then you raise the ph causing stony corals too grow faster using the alkalinity faster then it can dose it by it self ? When I dose it to my tank it makes my alk drop tested by the alk Hanna checker, what can cause this ?

Adding hydroxide tends to raise pH, and that rise can increase both abiotic precipitation of calcium carbonate and coral calcification. Usually, one would not expect alk to actually decline, but it can. The drop may also be test error. The Hanna has a specification of +/- 0.4 dKH at 8 dKH.