PH stability through reverse lighting

[Kieran McBride]

From my understanding and knowing the natural daily process in our home aquaria follows a pattern of a rise in Ph during the day and a lowering at night due to the photosynthesis of the corals and the consumption of C02 etc, but what if the 'system' could be lit 24 hours a day?

I know there are many who help this become more stable by using a reverse lighting method with a refugium, but has anyone used a reverse lighting method on a frag tank?

In theory if you have one system that involves two tanks connected to one sump, one a display and the other a frag tank, having the display lighting period for twelve hours then the frag tank lit the opposite twelve hours, this should help maintain more equilibrium and balance?

I would imagine the frag tank would need to have a similar amount of coral that the display has to allow the same amount of C02 absorption etc to happen from each lighting period, therefore maintaining a 24 hour balance of Ph.

It would be interesting to see if anyone has thought about this too, tried it, or actually doing it, and if it it feasible or even if it works?

I know there wouldn't be too many that have a frag tank with as many corals as a display, but for those who do, this may be beneficial?

 

[jhuntstl]

I run opposite light cycle on my frag and maintain a pretty stable pH dosing kalkwasser 24/7.

 

[Kieran McBride]

I run opposite light cycle on my frag and maintain a pretty stable pH dosing kalkwasser 24/7.

That's impressive, any more details?

 

[jhuntstl]

Any more details?

Sure!

70g display, 50g sump, 50g frag. Mostly SPS.

Opposite light cycle has been very beneficial. I do control my kalkwasser dosing based on pH though. This helps a lot to minimize swings.

Frag tank is still relatively new. I'm trying to load it up with as many acro nubs as I can get on the cheap. =)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

From my understanding and knowing the natural daily process in our home aquaria follows a pattern of a rise in Ph during the day and a lowering at night due to the photosynthesis of the corals and the consumption of C02 etc, but what if the 'system' could be lit 24 hours a day?

I know there are many who help this become more stable by using a reverse lighting method with a refugium, but has anyone used a reverse lighting method on a frag tank?

In theory if you have one system that involves two tanks connected to one sump, one a display and the other a frag tank, having the display lighting period for twelve hours then the frag tank lit the opposite twelve hours, this should help maintain more equilibrium and balance?

I would imagine the frag tank would need to have a similar amount of coral that the display has to allow the same amount of C02 absorption etc to happen from each lighting period, therefore maintaining a 24 hour balance of Ph.

It would be interesting to see if anyone has thought about this too, tried it, or actually doing it, and if it it feasible or even if it works?

I know there wouldn't be too many that have a frag tank with as many corals as a display, but for those who do, this may be beneficial?

Opposite light cycles are helpful to mitigate the pH and O2 minima at night, and lots of people do it (I did for more than 15 years), but since display tanks usually have more photosynthesis going on, ad display tanks usually have a LOT more respiration at night, the pH is not usually leveled this way.

 

[Kieran McBride]

Sure!

70g display, 50g sump, 50g frag. Mostly SPS.

Opposite light cycle has been very beneficial. I do control my kalkwasser dosing based on pH though. This helps a lot to minimize swings.

Frag tank is still relatively new. I'm trying to load it up with as many acro nubs as I can get on the cheap. =)

I'm definitely going to try this. Your Ph levels are probably the most stable I've ever seen. Can you tell us more on your kalkwasser dosing method. Are you using two part or another method along side it? TIA

 

[Kieran McBride]

Opposite light cycles are helpful to mitigate the pH and O2 minima at night, and lots of people do it (I did for more than 15 years), but since display tanks usually have more photosynthesis going on, the pH is not usually leveled this way.

Yes, that was my understanding hence the questions and highlighting the possible need for a frag tank to hold similar livestock levels, but saying that, even if there are less corals in the frag tank, I think there could still be benefits to be gained, small as they may be, it's s step in the right direction.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Yes, that was my understanding hence the questions and highlighting the possible need for a frag tank to hold similar livestock levels, but saying that, even if there are less corals in the frag tank, I think there could still be benefits to be gained, small as they may be, it's s step in the right direction.

Yes, benefits, but not not typically a full solution. That is the reason other solutions are often sought after.

You are only focusing on photosynthesis. Respiration is what adds CO2 at night. All the organisms in the display tank add CO2 at night. Few refugia or frag tanks have anywhere near as much CO2 addition as display tanks.

I address many ways of dealing with pH here, and mention reverse light cycles:

A final method that is generally useful to increase pH involves growing macroalgae that absorb CO2 from the water as it grows. The growth is often in a sump that’s lit on a reverse light cycle to the main tank to provide the maximum pH increase when the main tank is at its minimum pH. The effectiveness of this effect depends on the amount of macroalgae and how fast it is growing.

pH and the Reef Aquarium - REEFEDITION

by Randy Holmes-Farley For many aquarists, pH is not something that they have much experience with aside from their aquarium. For many, pH is almost a black box measurement: something to be considered, but whose physical meaning makes little sense to them. This article will Read more here...

www.reefedition.com

 

[Kieran McBride]

Yes, benefits, but not not typically a full solution. That is the reason other solutions are often sought after.

You are only focusing on photosynthesis. Respiration is what adds CO2 at night. All the organisms in the display tank add CO2 at night. Few refugia or frag tanks have anywhere near as much CO2 addition as display tanks.

I address many ways of dealing with pH here, and mention reverse light cycles:

A final method that is generally useful to increase pH involves growing macroalgae that absorb CO2 from the water as it grows. The growth is often in a sump that’s lit on a reverse light cycle to the main tank to provide the maximum pH increase when the main tank is at its minimum pH. The effectiveness of this effect depends on the amount of macroalgae and how fast it is growing.

pH and the Reef Aquarium - REEFEDITION

by Randy Holmes-Farley For many aquarists, pH is not something that they have much experience with aside from their aquarium. For many, pH is almost a black box measurement: something to be considered, but whose physical meaning makes little sense to them. This article will Read more here...

www.reefedition.com

Yes I understand, many of us aren't in a position to apply the full solution, so adding that small benefit that we can add will at least go some way to help, small as it is, until a time we can properly address it.

 

[OfficeReefer]

From my understanding and knowing the natural daily process in our home aquaria follows a pattern of a rise in Ph during the day and a lowering at night due to the photosynthesis of the corals and the consumption of C02 etc, but what if the 'system' could be lit 24 hours a day?

I know there are many who help this become more stable by using a reverse lighting method with a refugium, but has anyone used a reverse lighting method on a frag tank?

In theory if you have one system that involves two tanks connected to one sump, one a display and the other a frag tank, having the display lighting period for twelve hours then the frag tank lit the opposite twelve hours, this should help maintain more equilibrium and balance?

I would imagine the frag tank would need to have a similar amount of coral that the display has to allow the same amount of C02 absorption etc to happen from each lighting period, therefore maintaining a 24 hour balance of Ph.

It would be interesting to see if anyone has thought about this too, tried it, or actually doing it, and if it it feasible or even if it works?

I know there wouldn't be too many that have a frag tank with as many corals as a display, but for those who do, this may be beneficial?

@Kieran McBride Yes, people do this all the time. Refugium with light, making pH on both cycles, just as in the real world.

 

[Kieran McBride]

@Kieran McBride Yes, people do this all the time. Refugium with light, making pH on both cycles, just as in the real world.

Yes, I've mentioned people using refugiums for that, I'm asking about the same process with a frag tank, not a refugium

 

[OfficeReefer]

Yes, I've mentioned people using refugiums for that, I'm asking about the same process with a frag tank, not a refugium

I suppose it could be done, some pet stores near me do this but they rarely use the frag tanks for this purpose alone.

I might recommend checking out what Than T has done at Tidal Gardens with the outdoor tanks. Some are staggered this way but I don't think any of this was done to keep pH perfect. In fact, if I recall, Mark L with Melev's Reef has a video about chasing the pH as it makes little difference, unless of course these are large swings.

 

[jhuntstl]

I'm definitely going to try this. Your Ph levels are probably the most stable I've ever seen. Can you tell us more on your kalkwasser dosing method. Are you using two part or another method along side it? TIA

Not generally a recommended method, but as mentioned I'm currently dosing to achieve stable pH. Given I use the same 50g stock tank as a sump and run high flow, I have pretty high evaporation for my total volume(about 120).

I am only dosing kalkwasser. Roughly 3g fully saturated each day, I believe. I said I dose 24/7 previously and that is incorrect. I'd have to check my logs, but I think the doser runs approximately 15-18 hours a day.

I am not dosing to hit a specific alkalinity, but rather letting pH run the show. At the moment, that means high alkalinity. Last I tested, I was over 11.

I've been dosing kalk for a while, but the pH control is something I started a month ago. So still experimental at this point.