Ph: Why do you vex me so?

[seastar]

Ok... 3 days ago I have 7.97 Ph on recorded my Apex, I drilled a hole into the side of the house and I got 8.05 by the next day. Didn't touch my low Alk at all. I knew I could do better by getting my parameters all set, and indeed I got 8.20 Ph @ Alk 9.3! Winning right? I woke up this morning to Ph at 7.97 and Alk still at 9.3... I know Ph drops over night (though I do run a refugium all night with the light on). I have two plants in my office that are supposed to produce a high amount of oxygen to also help combat this. Any ideas? I know people say don't chase numbers, especially Ph, but I really want to be that annoying person that insists it at least gets higher. I have lost a few Hammers and Zoa's and it seems to happen every time I have a big Ph swing.

 

[nervousmonkey]

Well, to start with, your pH numbers are WNL, and your alk level is good, presumably stable at 9.3 +/- 0.5
pH is really not something to chase, especially first thing in the morning before the lights have been on for a while. However, I do the same thing and want to make sure my pH is always as good as it can be.
That said, 99% of the time, low pH is caused by excess CO2. I know you drilled a hole in the side of the house, but that won't equilibrate the inside of your house to the outside. One of the cheapest and best ways to reduce CO2 in the water is to add a CO2 scrubber that runs into the air intake of your skimmer. BRS has an air filter that I use on all of my tanks, works like a charm. Fill it with soda lime from BRS, attach to the air silencer on your skimmer, or run it straight into the venturi air intake on the skimmer. It'll keep dissolved CO2 levels down in the tank, and you'll see pH increase in less than a day, probably up to 8.2 or 8.3 with the alk level you are keeping.

Hope this helps!

 

[happyhourhero]

I checked PH for the first couple of weeks and then quit worrying about it. I drip kalk daily and run the lights on my algae scrubber while the tank lights are off. You get yourself into WAY more trouble chasing numbers around than if you just shoot for stability and let your tank adapt.

 

[nervousmonkey]

+1

 

[seastar]

Well, to start with, your pH numbers are WNL, and your alk level is good, presumably stable at 9.3 +/- 0.5
pH is really not something to chase, especially first thing in the morning before the lights have been on for a while. However, I do the same thing and want to make sure my pH is always as good as it can be.
That said, 99% of the time, low pH is caused by excess CO2. I know you drilled a hole in the side of the house, but that won't equilibrate the inside of your house to the outside. One of the cheapest and best ways to reduce CO2 in the water is to add a CO2 scrubber that runs into the air intake of your skimmer. BRS has an air filter that I use on all of my tanks, works like a charm. Fill it with soda lime from BRS, attach to the air silencer on your skimmer, or run it straight into the venturi air intake on the skimmer. It'll keep dissolved CO2 levels down in the tank, and you'll see pH increase in less than a day, probably up to 8.2 or 8.3 with the alk level you are keeping.

Hope this helps!

This most definitely helps! Thank you. I noticed my corals acting up with the Ph swings... But I think that was more the Alk swings. Since I already have a hole in the wall, still think a scrubber would help things? Is there a way to have both?

 

[seastar]

I checked PH for the first couple of weeks and then quit worrying about it. I drip kalk daily and run the lights on my algae scrubber while the tank lights are off. You get yourself into WAY more trouble chasing numbers around than if you just shoot for stability and let your tank adapt.

Great advice and most appreciated! It has bothered me more than it probably should in my quest for "why isn't this coral thriving?!"

 

[zoomonster]

Long story short I had my issues getting into a PH range I was happy with (and I have a 24x7 lit fuge). My calcium reactor was a big part of the problem and I partially remedied that by adding a second chamber to it for effluent flow and changed the setup such that is a stream rather than a drip and uses less CO2. CaRx aside the base answer is I use a aquamedic kalk mixer and my ATO water flows (very slow trickle) through it. Looking at Apex logs my current numbers are 8.1 low, 8.22 avg and 8.35 high. Between the two I have my Alk dialed in at a consistent 9. CaRx or not the only way you are going to run a consistent higher PH is by automating the addition of kalk or similar product.

 

[nervousmonkey]

This most definitely helps! Thank you. I noticed my corals acting up with the Ph swings... But I think that was more the Alk swings. Since I already have a hole in the wall, still think a scrubber would help things? Is there a way to have both?

Yeah, run a line to the outside through the hole, bring in fresh air, and that will probably negate the need for a scrubber, but if you wanted higher pH, put the scrubber on right before the venturi intake and you'll be fine.

 

[Thales]

I find an airpump outside pumping air though a rigid air line into the sump to be quite effective at dealing with excess co2 in the water.

 

[seastar]

I find an airpump outside pumping air though a rigid air line into the sump to be quite effective at dealing with excess co2 in the water.

So it bubbles fresh air into the sump? Do you have the line in the sump on an air stone or anything?

 

[nervousmonkey]

+1 to what Thales said. The dude is smart.

 

[Thales]

So it bubbles fresh air into the sump? Do you have the line in the sump on an air stone or anything?

Just the line. Most gas exchange happens when the surface tension breaks, not though bubble membranes.
Do you dose Kalk? Regular dosing will help keep pH stable and can raise it, but it has to be dialed in. I am all for trying the air first because that is so easy.
Have you read Randy's pH article?
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I have two plants in my office that are supposed to produce a high amount of oxygen to also help combat this.

FWIW at night the plant steals the oxygen back. common cause of high nocturnal Ph swings esp in winter. Plants people and Furnace. O2 leaches, all of em!

 

[seastar]

Just the line. Most gas exchange happens when the surface tension breaks, not though bubble membranes.
Do you dose Kalk? Regular dosing will help keep pH stable and can raise it, but it has to be dialed in. I am all for trying the air first because that is so easy.
Have you read Randy's pH article?
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/

I don't dose kalk... I just started dosing two part. I don't know why I didn't just go kalk. I have a very low demand (few corals) tank still.

I'll read that article now, thanks!

 

[FishOfHex]

Ok... 3 days ago I have 7.97 Ph on recorded my Apex, I drilled a hole into the side of the house and I got 8.05 by the next day. Didn't touch my low Alk at all. I knew I could do better by getting my parameters all set, and indeed I got 8.20 Ph @ Alk 9.3! Winning right? I woke up this morning to Ph at 7.97 and Alk still at 9.3... I know Ph drops over night (though I do run a refugium all night with the light on). I have two plants in my office that are supposed to produce a high amount of oxygen to also help combat this. Any ideas? I know people say don't chase numbers, especially Ph, but I really want to be that annoying person that insists it at least gets higher. I have lost a few Hammers and Zoa's and it seems to happen every time I have a big Ph swing.