Ph wont maintain

[MinNateSota]

I plan on adding macroalgae for sure. I have two kits that I have used to compare and I have done the test a bajillion times and my lfs gets the same readings too.
I only started freaking out cause my mushrooms look terrible, the starfish was twisting himself into knots, and few other guys died. All the dead stuff has been removed. I’ve been working towards getting my cycle back up but I’m just curious as to why the ph won’t stay up. To the point where I can get it up for a moment and then an hour later it’s back down to 7.8. And I’m not using the balance anymore. I have a tank set up to make water for changes and that water is perfect so this evening I changed out 5 gallons. I don’t want to change too much and mess up the bacteria. I did build a scrubber and picked up some lime granules will see if that helps at all. I’ll look into a refugium as well. Im trying to research everything you are all talking about. Just have kids and everything else to grow too

 

[MinNateSota]

Here’s my scrubber if anyone is interested lol I used an old water sediment filter and am running it “backwards” the air goes through the center down the tube and out holes drilled in the bottom of the tube. Then up and out the inlet port. The tube is cut into two at the top with a smaller tube fitting inside so I can line them up when I put the top on after filling. Air flow is working well so far.

 

[mdb_talon]

To the point where I can get it up for a moment and then an hour later it’s back down to 7.8

I dont really think that is the least bit unusual(and again a 7.8ph is not the cause of any issues with inhabitants). I would say this is a time the correlation is not causation. Many people have a 7.8ph for at least some time during the say.

Also again would stress relying on a "kit" to get an accurate measurement i dont think is good even if your number matches the store kit. Calibrated ph probes are much more useful...partially because its not an eye test but most importantly because it is calibrated with known solutions and gives much more validity to results in my opinion.

 

[MinNateSota]

7.8 is my measure All day and lower at night. I can look into a probe. I saw the seneye monitor earlier. I don’t work a regular job so I have been monitoring this tank like non stop. It’s a challenge to keep myself from chasing the ph. After a few additions of the Balance I gave up on that quick cause I’ve read I’ll do more harm chasing it than waiting for it to settle. It’s just hard when you have a 1k of livestock being threatened not to mention they are my homies and I don’t want them to suffer. I’m trying to keep it regular and slowly change whatever needs to be changed or added. Hence me coming here for advice. Which is greatly appreciated. Is there a particular macroalgae that works best for seahorses in a mixed reef? Is there a ph probe that I should check out? Particular brand of anything I should use? A lot of my stuff is seachem and I’ve been using the bio-spira for regaining my cycle.

 

[mdb_talon]

I am far from an expert on seahorses but as i understand it they do fine with all the standard macroalgaes in the hobby. If you have a sump or seperate refugium personally i would go with cheato....its cheap, grows fast, and does not have some of the risks of some types of algae. If you are putting it in the DT then it is usually not the best option and some of the more decorative and slower growing macros probably make easier(dragons breath, etc).

As for the probe i prefer milwaukee ph monitor. The key is getting calibration solutions and calibrating every several months(or when you start seeing unusual numbers). I assume seneye works fine as well but no experience with it.

Again i dont think PH is the cause of your issues, but some tests you can do is an aeration test outside with your tank water(aerate outside then test ph). Also aerate inside next to tank and test PH. If outside is higher than i side test it says you have higher co2 inside and by how much(it is normal for co2 to be higher. If the inside aeration test shows an increase in ph then that tells you that increased aeration of your tank could raise the PH. All these test are much less useful without the probe as there is just not much precision to the results.

 

[Klyle]

I would be more worried about the nitrites. That's far more likely to cause stress to your inhabitants than 7.8 pH. If it were me and actually had an increase in nitrites, I would check to see if I had ammonia. And I would be doing water changes.

 

[MaxTremors]

How old is the tank? Regardless of adding more CUC or having a few die, your tank shouldn’t be ‘recycling’ (that’s not really a thing). A PH of 7.8 isn’t going to hurt any of the livestock you have, I don’t think that would be the cause of your mushrooms and starfish not doing well (starfish in general do really poorly in captivity, especially in new and smallish tanks, it is likely starving to death, that’s just what usually happens, if you want an starfish like animal, get a serpent or brittle star). Not trying to be critical, but it sounds like you jumped into the deep end before learning to swim. Seahorses are not a beginner species, they need to be kept at lower temperatures (68° to 74°) they will have severely shortened life spans at tropical temps (like 1 year vs 8). But need to know the age of the tank, all of your actual parameters (and if they’ve been stable over time), what equipment/lighting you’re running, and some pics of the tank before being able to point you in the right direction. In the meantime, stop micromanaging, just let your tank be, keep up on weekly water changes/maintenance, and don’t dose anything.

 

[MinNateSota]

The starfish that died was a serpent star fish lol the regular starfish is the one that has been in the longest
I lost the cycle because I added a ton of guys (almost all of the snails and crap I mentioned earlier) and I’ve been doing water changes without adding anything to maintain the cycle. With some help from a local we decide the cycle must be gone given the ph, temp, salinity, etc were all good except ammonia was creeping up but nitrates and nitrites were zero. Nothing in the tank to break down the ammonia. Nuked the tank with bacteria and the ammonia is going down and the nitrates and nitrites are rising. I have great filtration and protein skimmer. My lighting is a Current orbit led with ramp timer. Wavemaker. Heater. Sand bed. Live rocks. I test for PH, kh, ammonia, phosphates, nitrates, nitrite and salinity. Salinity is 1.023-26 depending on evap. And the temp is 75.5-76 and slowly dropping it to get down to 74. I got concerned about the ph because I don’t want the alkalinity to increase while the ph drops and get all unbalanced. And I was shocked to see nothing be able to increase the ph. Or at least for very long. I’m aware that the nitrates and nitrites are going to stress the livestock out and I have doses Red Sea nitrate and phosphate control NO3O4-X. I also dozed ammonia lock previous to nuking the tank. And I have done a 50% water change prior to nuking. A few days after nuke and with nitrates and nitrites rising I did a 10 gallon change with stabilized water that I “brew” from RO/DI water, reef crystals, seachem stabilizer and seachem prime and bio-spira. Even after doing the 50% change and having the ph up 8.2 it dropped back down to 7.8 and stayed in the range the same day and after. I tried Balance (Boo) and the Ph just dropped right back down. While the KH rose a tiny bit. And still rose which is now creeping up to a level I don’t want 12. That’s why I’m worried about what the heck is going on with the ph. My lights are off right now so I can’t take a good pic.

 

[MinNateSota]

And I purchased the tank from a local that had been running for at least 4 years. It only had mushrooms in it and the astrae snails and a couple bumble bee snails. I added a Kenya tree, a starfish a few Zoas and my horses. Everything was fine until I added the clean up crew. That I bought from the same people I bought the sea horses from (Sea Horse Savvy) oh yeah there is also a sea cucumber and red footed sea cucumber that was part of the crew. We bought the crew because it’s hard to not over feed the horses (ordered a seahorse feeding station to help prevent that) and the algae was wanting to grow. Added this bomb of a clean up crew and it went downhill from there

 

[MinNateSota]

And I purchased the tank from a local that had been running for at least 4 years. It only had mushrooms in it and the astrae snails and a couple bumble bee snails. I added a Kenya tree, a starfish a few Zoas and my horses. Everything was fine until I added the clean up crew. That I bought from the same people I bought the sea horses from (Sea Horse Savvy) oh yeah there is also a sea cucumber and red footed sea cucumber that was part of the crew. We bought the crew because it’s hard to not over feed the horses (ordered a seahorse feeding station to help prevent that) and the algae was wanting to grow. Added this bomb of a clean up crew and it went downhill from there

Only had* add it had live rock, and the sand. The tank was a running tank that had three fish in it when I bought it but didn’t want the fish so they didn’t come with me. We drained the majority the tank into 15gallon totes and carefully placed all the live rocks into them. Loaded everything up into my suv and carefully drove it home. Set it up immediately and everything ran great for the last 2.5 months

 

[MinNateSota]

I also have a poly sponge to help absorb the ammonia etc

 

[MinNateSota]

I forgot to mention that I have a freshwater bowl and orchids right next to the reef tank that should be helping absorb the co2 as well

 

[MinNateSota]

The freshwater bowl has bamboo and an orchid and some other leafy plant on a rock in it

 

[MaxTremors]

Okay, a lot to unpack here. First, it’s basically impossible that your tank is ‘re-cycling’, if you kept the rock in water when you moved it, and it was running for two months before you added this CuC, its virtually impossible that you’re tank is still or re-cycling. I would stop adding any additives (especially Prime, that should only be used in emergencies, if you’re using RODI there is no need for a dechlorinator). I would stop testing for both ammonia and nitrite, there is no point in testing them in a tank this old, any positive ammonia test is a false positive (API are inaccurate, but regardless, they test for the total ammonia, not the free ammonia, which is what is toxic to livestock, free ammonia is less than 10% of total ammonia). If you really had an ammonia issue, your sea horses would be dead Nitrite is not toxic in saltwater. The Prime and Ammonia Lock are just working against you, they’re not stopping your cycle (again, a cycle isn’t something you can really lose without killing the tank with chemicals or drying it out), but they’re limiting the amount of ammonia that the bacteria can process, thereby not allowing them to be as robust as they could be. Changing water doesn’t get rid of any bacteria, all of the nitrifying bacteria is in your rocks and on surfaces, you don’t need to add anything to water changes to ‘maintain the cycle’. Water changes should just be RODI and salt

I would slowly ease off the NoPox, over several weeks lower the dose to zero. I don’t say this condescendingly, but I don’t think you’re at an experience level where you can safely use a product like this).

Your salinity going from 1.023 to 1.026 is way too big of a swing, I would either get a lid, get an ATO, or top off daily (just plain RODI) to ensure stable salinity.

I would switch to a salt that has a lower DkH, reef crystals have elevated alkalinity, there is no reason to run your Alk that high, there are several salts that are decent, with lower Alk, around the same price.

I would get rid of the poly filter, just use filter floss. All of these different products that you’re using are really working against creating a robust and diverse biome in your tank.

The orchid and houseplants aren’t going to do much to offset the CO2 levels in your house, you’d be much better off opening a window. But again, a ph of 7.8 isn’t an issue.

I think the main issue you’re having is that you’re trying to micromanage, you’re adding tons of additives without really understanding they how the work, and your tank isn’t stable (you’re messing with the PH, the salinity isn’t stable, and adding all kinds of additives that you can’t test for). I would really suggest watching BRS’s 52 weeks of reefing, again I don’t mean to be condescending, but it seems like you don’t fully grasp the fundamentals (I think this local person you’ve been getting advice from doesn’t really know what they’re talking about).

You still didn’t mention how long you’ve had the tank.

In the meantime, this is what I would do:

No more additives (the nopox you want to wean off slowly over a month or so), including bottled bacteria.

Only do weekly water changes (just RODI and salt)

Get rid of any poly filter or anything that’s absorbing nutrients, just use plain polyester filter floss.

Run a small amount of activated carbon and change monthly (something you should always run when keeping sea cucumbers)

Get some macro algae, or start a refugium (one exception to dosing, you can add some Chaeto-gro - at half the recommended dose)

Get your salinity stable (through one of the methods mentioned above)

Stop worrying about ammonia and nitrite (only test for these if your livestock is acting strange)

Stop micromanaging, let your tank mature, let the biological processes happen (they don’t need you to help them, they just need a stable environment).

And lastly, do a deep dive (52 weeks of reefing is a good start) into the fundamentals of reefing keeping, reef chemistry, and the nitrogen cycle in reef aquariums.

 

[ohiomike]

its Most likely a Carbon Dioxide issue, from your own breathing. The carbon dioxide combines with hydrogen in water to form carbonic acid, lowering the pH. Looks like you’re up north, where it’s cold and you may not have a lot of ventilation to the outside. Our exhalations raise the CO2 in a closed airspace. Can you run the air intake for your skimmer to outside your house. If not, try adding a CO2 scrubber to your skimmer intake.

I second what Mr.Bends says about trying to raise the pH any way but naturally. And I was going to try to tell you the same thing as Him.But He beat me to it, so I second it . If you can get a line from the air intake of skimmer to the outside.

 

[mdb_talon]

Salinity is 1.023-26 depending on evap

This is a greater problem than your PH...and easily fixed.