Phage Therapy

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

This is at the center of my point for posting this thread:

Indiscriminate use of chemicals are creating super resistant bacteria. FIND ANOTHER WAY!

That was my approach in the company I was in, but since this thread is about phages, folks should recognize that bacteria will also mutate to avoid phages. There are ways to try to get around that just like with antibiotics, but phages are not without these same issues:

https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2104592118

A major barrier to successful phage therapy is that bacteria readily evolve phage resistance.

 

[Subsea]

That was my approach in the company I was in, but since this thread is about phages, folks should recognize that bacteria will also mutate to avoid phages. There are ways to try to get around that just like with antibiotics, but phages are not without these same issues:

https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2104592118

A major barrier to successful phage therapy is that bacteria readily evolve phage resistance.

Randy,
Thank you for the link.

“In 30 y, the World Health Organization predicts that antibiotic-resistant bacteria will kill over 10 million people each year—more deaths than are caused by cancer (1). This health crisis, in part caused by the heavy and often inappropriate way we use antibiotic drugs, has led to the spread of resistance genes through clinical, agricultural, and natural environments and to the emergence of multidrug-resistant (MDR) “superbugs” that are untreatable due to their resistance against all available classes of antibiotics (2–4). As bacteria continue to outpace our discovery and development of new drugs, the evolution of resistance threatens to return us to a preantibiotic era of infectious disease (5, 6).”

While I did not know the numbers, when

“super bugs” kill more people than cancer

WE HAVE A BIG PROBLEM.

 

[Nano_Man]

“In 30 y, the World Health Organization predicts that antibiotic-resistant bacteria will kill over 10 million people each year—more deaths than are caused by cancer (1). This health crisis, in part caused by the heavy and often inappropriate way we use antibiotic drugs, has led to the spread of resistance genes through clinical, agricultural, and natural environments and to the emergence of multidrug-resistant (MDR) “superbugs” that are untreatable due to their resistance against all available classes of antibiotics (2–4). As bacteria continue to outpace our discovery and development of new drugs, the evolution of resistance threatens to return us to a preantibiotic era of infectious disease (5, 6).”

While I did not know the numbers, when

“super bugs” kill more people than cancer

WE HAVE A BIG PROBLEM.

Subsea that is bang on . You hit the nail on the head. Even when you take your dog to the vet’s they are reluctant to give you the strongest antibiotics because if it only kills some of the infection the bacteria becomes tolerant of the antibiotic and then they have nothing left to treat the infection

 

[Naekuh]

In Vitro... vs In Vivo... only the vivo encompasses the entire ocean.

I don't think Vivo is possible with the size we use, unless your sea world, or the aquarium of the pacific / monteray bay aquarium.

I think a perfectly controlled Vitro scenario has to be maintained.

Its like the war of the worlds scenario.
If there is no nasty's present in the enviorment, of course introducing it will wipe out the sample.
So since its vitro, and you can control all aspects of vitro, its your due dilliagance to try to not introduce it.

If i could make my fish wear masks around each other, im sure, people would do that as well.

Although i can't speak against Paul B's tanks.. they absolutely great... but in my hands, it would probably turn into a the river stix quickly let alone a prospering reef.

Randy,
Thank you for the link.

“In 30 y, the World Health Organization predicts that antibiotic-resistant bacteria will kill over 10 million people each year—more deaths than are caused by cancer (1). This health crisis, in part caused by the heavy and often inappropriate way we use antibiotic drugs, has led to the spread of resistance genes through clinical, agricultural, and natural environments and to the emergence of multidrug-resistant (MDR) “superbugs” that are untreatable due to their resistance against all available classes of antibiotics (2–4). As bacteria continue to outpace our discovery and development of new drugs, the evolution of resistance threatens to return us to a preantibiotic era of infectious disease (5, 6).”

While I did not know the numbers, when

“super bugs” kill more people than cancer

WE HAVE A BIG PROBLEM.

MRSA has been around for a very long time.
Infact hospitals section off the ICU floor with patients who are known to have MRSA.

I assume the article your referring to is talking about MRSA.

Lucky for us tho, the white blood cell works more on protein memory, which i think paul is trying to enforce by introducing new pathogens.

And that usually happens only in healthy samples.

But again.... if you were pulled from a vivo sample, and thrown into a vitro... i don't think you would ever become "Happy".

But then we get into a whole other catigory of ethics, which i'll end it on.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Randy,
Thank you for the link.

“In 30 y, the World Health Organization predicts that antibiotic-resistant bacteria will kill over 10 million people each year—more deaths than are caused by cancer (1). This health crisis, in part caused by the heavy and often inappropriate way we use antibiotic drugs, has led to the spread of resistance genes through clinical, agricultural, and natural environments and to the emergence of multidrug-resistant (MDR) “superbugs” that are untreatable due to their resistance against all available classes of antibiotics (2–4). As bacteria continue to outpace our discovery and development of new drugs, the evolution of resistance threatens to return us to a preantibiotic era of infectious disease (5, 6).”

While I did not know the numbers, when

“super bugs” kill more people than cancer

WE HAVE A BIG PROBLEM.

I don't doubt that antibiotic resistance is a big problem.

The issue is how to solve it. It's not a trivial problem, nor is it even purely a technical problem.

The amount of money it takes to develop a new antimicrobial that will currently be held in reserve for only a few folks with the most resistant forms of infections requires, IMO, governments or other organizations to ante up huge sums of money.

Recent history is littered with companies that went belly up due to lack of a suitable financial reward for developing new treatments. Even companies with approved therapies found a lack of customers.

 

[Subsea]

Some people don’t get it about building stronger immunity in a reefs . I read articles from you and Paul and it changed the way I run my tanks for ever so first of all Thank you both. I’ve never looked back ii am throwing all sorts of life into my tanks and my fish have never looked better. I think a lot of tank bred fish have never come in contact with much in their young life’s . Look at it this way all of our lives we are fighting off viruses and infections and our immune system grows more after every illness. Some people may agree and others will never understand the natural way

Nice to hear a thank you especially after I looked at your tank threads. Impressive stuff and great photography.

Too many people want a quick fix and are not interested in reef husbandry.

A doctor friend told me his patients didn’t want diet & exercise for a diagnoses cure, they wanted “quick fix” pills.

 

[Naekuh]

A doctor friend told me his patients didn’t want diet & exercise for a diagnoses cure, they wanted “quick fix” pills.

Ozempic?

LOL.... but that itself also has lots of side effects, and is considered a last line to most health care professionals before a gastric bypass.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Ozempic?

LOL.... but that itself also has lots of side effects, and is considered a last line to most health care professionals before a gastric bypass.

I won't diss it, and may well start taking it. I expect it will be considered like statins in a few years.

FWIW, Oral delivery of such compounds is the goal of the company I work for.

Portfolio

Engineering hydrogels to enable the oral administration of peptide therapeutics (e.g., GLP-1 agonists)

 

[Subsea]

In Vitro... vs In Vivo... only the vivo encompasses the entire ocean.

I don't think Vivo is possible with the size we use, unless your sea world, or the aquarium of the pacific / monteray bay aquarium.

I think a perfectly controlled Vitro scenario has to be maintained.

Its like the war of the worlds scenario.
If there is no nasty's present in the enviorment, of course introducing it will wipe out the sample.
So since its vitro, and you can control all aspects of vitro, its your due dilliagance to try to not introduce it.

If i could make my fish wear masks around each other, im sure, people would do that as well.

Although i can't speak against Paul B's tanks.. they absolutely great... but in my hands, it would probably turn into a the river stix quickly let alone a prospering reef.



MRSA has been around for a very long time.
Infact hospitals section off the ICU floor with patients who are known to have MRSA.

I assume the article your referring to is talking about MRSA.

Lucky for us tho, the white blood cell works more on protein memory, which i think paul is trying to enforce by introducing new pathogens.

And that usually happens only in healthy samples.

But again.... if you were pulled from a vivo sample, and thrown into a vitro... i don't think you would ever become "Happy".

But then we get into a whole other catigory of ethics, which i'll end it on.

Randy linked the article and the pathogen studied was Escherichia coli.

I copied & pasted the point I wished to make. I don’t know what your ethics comment is about!

While I concur with adding biodiversity in similar fashion as @Paul B, I also use both ornamental and cryptic sponges as consumers of pathogens. I believe in both gene expression & gene memory as useful tools in natural reefkeeping.

 

[Naekuh]

I don’t know what your ethics comment is about!

well my ethics comment applied to subjecting the closed enviorment to something alive, and forcing pathogens so they get and develop herd immunity.

 

[Subsea]

well my ethics comment applied to subjecting the closed enviorment to something alive, and forcing pathogens so they get and develop herd immunity.

Really? Did the bugs talk with you?

Do you add amphipods or copepods to your tank? I wonder if they like being food for higher predators?

 

[Naekuh]

Really? Did the bugs talk with you?

Do you add amphipods or copepods to your tank? I wonder if they like being food for higher predators?

if that really bothered me, id be linking arms and arms with Greta Thurnburg telling every nation... "HOW DARE YOU!"

And not enjoy my reef tank over my morning coffee to make sure each and every last fish i have is accounted for, and not sick or hiding in some corner doing the morbund dance.

 

[Subsea]

Getting back to my point, I like using biodiversity to manage nutrient recycling.