phantom, black snowflake and blacker ice ???'s

[pgravis]

Are these basically the same fish, just different breeders? By same I mean a black body with snowflake-esq white strips? Or do any of them stay that browner color? I assume that is just a juvenile phase, much like a darwin clown goes thru? The main one I feel confused by is the blacker ice-at first I assumed it was like a black ice, but more brown than orange, but it seems I may have been confusing juvenile fish for adults. Feel free to enlighten me with some pics!
Thanks
PJ

 

[seamonkey84]

Yes and no. Black phantom and black snowflake are the same "breed" different breeder. Black ice is the step between snowflake and the black snowflake/phantom. The black ice is like the first (or couple) generation of crossing Darwin (black ocellaris) and the snowflake ocellaris morph.

Here's my sustainable aquatic black ice and my sea and reef black phantom

 

[jedidad]

Blacker Ice is ORA's version of the phantom. Yes they turn black as they mature.

 

[seamonkey84]

Ora has black snowflakes out, and the phantom isn't just a "blacker" ice, mine is solid black; they have black ice at sea and reef as well.

 

[jedidad]

the black ice and blacker ice are two different types of fish.

 

[jedidad]

Just went to the ORA site and I guess I was wrong. They are calling theirs black snowflake. I thought they were originally calling them blacker ice when they first released them.
sorry seamonkey

 

[Alpha Aquaculture]

Blacker Ice is ORA's version of the phantom. Yes they turn black as they mature.

Just went to the ORA site and I guess I was wrong. They are calling theirs black snowflake. I thought they were originally calling them blacker ice when they first released them.
sorry seamonkey

Hey! Blacker Ice is a name coined by Proaquatix to represent a generation between the least black Black Ice and nearly totally black Black Snowflake. The term Black Ice was originally coined by ORA but the Darwin x Snowflake cross was first done by Fish Eye Aquaculture and coined Smores. The name Smore never caught on but FEA still uses the term to represent their version of the Black Ice.

 

[Alpha Aquaculture]

Are these basically the same fish, just different breeders? By same I mean a black body with snowflake-esq white strips? Or do any of them stay that browner color? I assume that is just a juvenile phase, much like a darwin clown goes thru? The main one I feel confused by is the blacker ice-at first I assumed it was like a black ice, but more brown than orange, but it seems I may have been confusing juvenile fish for adults. Feel free to enlighten me with some pics!
Thanks
PJ

Hi! Good question! Black Ice generally have darker black borders but some breeders Black Ice have a homogenous muddying or brown color to them. Other breeders Black Ice have bright orange and dark black it really is just based on the individuals they use for their first cross between Darwin and Snowflake. Also, phenotypes vary between individuals from the same parents. Breeders like Proaquatix that have successfully created their own line of Black Snowflakes have gone as far as 4 generations of Snowflake then Black Ice then Blacker Ice all subsequently crossed with Darwin. Blacker Ice is just a stepping point in between Black Ice and Black Snowflake. Proaquatix currently officially uses the term Blacker Ice to represent fish that have some orange in their fins but in my experience some can be very very close to Black Snowflakes. For a while they were shipping me Blacker Ice that were identical to other breeders Black Snowflakes. Then they began selling them under the Black Snowflake label probably in an effort to show that their fish were comparable to other breeders Black Snowflakes. Phantoms are essentially Black Snowflakes although I have received some early on in their release that were closer to Blacker Ice. After that Sea and Reef began selling Black Ice probably because some individuals in the Phantom offspring were not totally black. I think in most clutches of Black Ice x Darwin some individuals are darker black ie Black Snowflakes and some are less black ie Black Ice. Phantom is a name Sea and Reef coined for their Black Snowflakes. All of these fish mentioned above do not have black faces during youth and may or may not develop them as they mature. In the future, you will see young fish with totally black faces as well as some wicked patterns probably being sold under a completely different name. All in all, they are some gorgeous fish and all the breeders have done an awesome job bringing these beautiful fish to market. Nice work everyone!!!

 

[Alpha Aquaculture]

Oh and if you want to check out some pics feel free to go to my site and look through the Hall of Fame. You will see photos and videos of Black Ice from multiple breeders, Blacker Ice, Phantoms and Black Snowflakes. Enjoy!

Hall of Fame

Also, feel free to ask anymore questions you may have

 

[pgravis]

Thanks all for the great info. I have browsed the hall of fame many times!! Some pretty amazing fish. Which of the above discussed are likely to develop the blue coloration? That is a crazy phenomenon


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