PhosGuard not working to lower phosphate levels.

[msavoy]

So I purchased some PhosGuard around 2 weeks ago to try and lower my phosphates, they were up at 0.09. The first time I put in the suggested amount, levels fell to 0.06 in around 3 days. I didn’t realize I was supposed to replace the PhosGuard after 4 days and levels shot back up to 0.12 at around 6 days. I replaced and tried again. I got levels back down to 0.06 after 3 days so I replaced the PhosGuard again. This time I got levels down to 0.03. So I figured one more time should do the trick. I measured the levels the very next day because I didn’t want them to go to 0 and today they’re back up to 0.06. I don’t understand. Is this normal? Am I doing something wrong? Now the whole bottle of PhosGuard has been used up and I only have a 45 gallon tanks. Thanks for your help!

 

[tautog83]

Pretty sure you can regenerate phosguard but maybe I'm wrong . You have dry rock in your tank ? Are using ro water?

 

[ScottB]

So I purchased some PhosGuard around 2 weeks ago to try and lower my phosphates, they were up at 0.09. The first time I put in the suggested amount, levels fell to 0.06 in around 3 days. I didn’t realize I was supposed to replace the PhosGuard after 4 days and levels shot back up to 0.12 at around 6 days. I replaced and tried again. I got levels back down to 0.06 after 3 days so I replaced the PhosGuard again. This time I got levels down to 0.03. So I figured one more time should do the trick. I measured the levels the very next day because I didn’t want them to go to 0 and today they’re back up to 0.06. I don’t understand. Is this normal? Am I doing something wrong? Now the whole bottle of PhosGuard has been used up and I only have a 45 gallon tanks. Thanks for your help!

Yes, that is normal. Phosphates bind to aragonite (rock/sand). GFO removes PO4 from the water quickly, then the rock leaches the phosphates back into the "depleted" water to a point of equilibrium.

Don't zero out your phosphates. I try to stay above .05 at all times. It is an important food source for your corals.

Are trying to fix something by lowering PO4? An algae outbreak or something?

 

[Duffer]

as said, you lower those phosphates any lower and you will have bigger issues. I also keep mine around .05

 

[msavoy]

Yes, that is normal. Phosphates bind to aragonite (rock/sand). GFO removes PO4 from the water quickly, then the rock leaches the phosphates back into the "depleted" water to a point of equilibrium.

Don't zero out your phosphates. I try to stay above .05 at all times. It is an important food source for your corals.

Are trying to fix something by lowering PO4? An algae outbreak or something?

Ok thank you, this would explain it then. I do have a patch of turf algae that I’ve been trying to get rid of forever. I thought by lowering my phosphates and dosing with some reef flux I could eliminate the problem once and for all. So no I don’t really have an algae problem, just one annoying patch. It’s impossible to manually remove it all as well since it’s in the crevasses. Thanks for the info!

 

[msavoy]

as said, you lower those phosphates any lower and you will have bigger issues. I also keep mine around .05

Ok thank you. Why do you hear some reefers say that they try to keep their phosphates and nitrates as close to zero as possible? Does it just depend on the tank?

 

[Reef.]

Ok thank you. Why do you hear some reefers say that they try to keep their phosphates and nitrates as close to zero as possible? Does it just depend on the tank?

Not many try to keep it that low and if they do try they probably have 100g+ tanks so it would be much easier to keep po4 low with a much bigger water volume.

Not sure why you think your phosguard isn’t working? You were getting drops in po4 when using it.

Sounds as either your rocks are holding onto a lot of po4 which is releasing it back into the water when the po4 in the water drops lower than the amount in the rocks, or you are feeding high po4 foods such as reefroids or similar.

I would keep replacing and you should see an improvement when the rocks stop releasing.

 

[ScottB]

Ok thank you, this would explain it then. I do have a patch of turf algae that I’ve been trying to get rid of forever. I thought by lowering my phosphates and dosing with some reef flux I could eliminate the problem once and for all. So no I don’t really have an algae problem, just one annoying patch. It’s impossible to manually remove it all as well since it’s in the crevasses. Thanks for the info!

If you can remove the rock with the patch, soak the patch in some H2O2. If you cannot, you can stop flow for a bit and squirt some on it with syringe.

 

[ScottB]

Ok thank you. Why do you hear some reefers say that they try to keep their phosphates and nitrates as close to zero as possible? Does it just depend on the tank?

There are some cases where this is safe, but the circumstances are not super typical these days.

My favorite is Heavy In / Heavy Out. Huge fish load, super duper mechanical and biological export. And lots of hungry coral.

The other is a bacteria driven system like ZEO, but again heavy/frequent feedings are required.

There is some "old" writings around here that espouse near 0/0, but I feel like those were written before we were accurately measuring in PPB.

 

[X-37B]

Heavy in heavy out is what I also do.
Large skimmer, filter sock, lots if fish. I only feed the fish.
My po4 range is <.1. No3 range <5.
And higher and my colors are affected.
I have been at .03 po4 and 1 no3 with no issues but I also feed 8+ cubes a day to my 15 fish in my 120.

I use phosgaurd in a media reactor to keep po4<.1.

I just brought a 30g remote fuge online. Prior I was replacing the phosgaurd every 3 days to keep below .1.
After a month of starting the fuge I replaced phosgaurd at 2 weeks with levels running .05.
I just took the media out and will see if the fuge can keep po4 at <.1.

Before the fuge po4 would get above .3 if I did not use phosgaurd. No issues in my system but colors were affected.

The goal of the fuge is to keep po4 in range without using po4 reducing media.

 

[ScottB]

Heavy in heavy out is what I also do.
Large skimmer, filter sock, lots if fish. I only feed the fish.
My po4 range is <.1. No3 range <5.
And higher and my colors are affected.
I have been at .03 po4 and 1 no3 with no issues but I also feed 8+ cubes a day to my 15 fish in my 120.

I use phosgaurd in a media reactor to keep po4<.1.

I just brought a 30g remote fuge online. Prior I was replacing the phosgaurd every 3 days to keep below .1.
After a month of starting the fuge I replaced phosgaurd at 2 weeks with levels running .05.
I just took the media out and will see if the fuge can keep po4 at <.1.

Before the fuge po4 would get above .3 if I did not use phosgaurd. No issues in my system but colors were affected.

The goal of the fuge is to keep po4 in range without using po4 reducing media.

8 cubes a day in a 120! That is insanely awesome!

 

[UnrealReefer]

Ok thank you. Why do you hear some reefers say that they try to keep their phosphates and nitrates as close to zero as possible? Does it just depend on the tank?

Because they haven't realized that is an important part of corals balance

 

[Just John]

Yes, that is normal. Phosphates bind to aragonite (rock/sand). GFO removes PO4 from the water quickly, then the rock leaches the phosphates back into the "depleted" water to a point of equilibrium.

Don't zero out your phosphates. I try to stay above .05 at all times. It is an important food source for your corals.

Are trying to fix something by lowering PO4? An algae outbreak or something?

The short story is that due to a faulty test kit I dosed my 10 month old 13 gal tank up to .45 phosphates trying to dose it up above 0.05. I don't have any fish to do it for me. Got a new test kit and discovered what happened and confirmed the 0.45 with a water test at the lfs. Will high phosphates in the water have permeated rock and sand? It was live rock, not dry. I did a 50% water change and it came down to .35. Then did an 80% water change (they are softies and didn't care at all) and it came down to .20. Two days later it is now up to .30. Not sure what to do to get them to stay down once they are lowered.

 

[ScottB]

The short story is that due to a faulty test kit I dosed my 10 month old 13 gal tank up to .45 phosphates trying to dose it up above 0.05. I don't have any fish to do it for me. Got a new test kit and discovered what happened and confirmed the 0.45 with a water test at the lfs. Will high phosphates in the water have permeated rock and sand? It was live rock, not dry. I did a 50% water change and it came down to .35. Then did an 80% water change (they are softies and didn't care at all) and it came down to .20. Two days later it is now up to .30. Not sure what to do to get them to stay down once they are lowered.

You do not have to rush things to get it down. You can use GFO (like RowaPhos) or lanthanum chloride (like Elimi Phos) but just GO SLOW. Excess is far better than stripping to nothing. Far better.

Yes, it will continue (for a while) to leach back from the sand and rock. Relax. Go slow. Some hair algae is NOT a failure. For the fourth time, go slow. Here is what .1 PO4 looks like. Granted, I do have some tangs, CUC and algae blennies to manage things.

 

[Just John]

so, do you think I should go slow?

 

[Just John]

Can I add frags of soft corals without an issue. I was hoping to get something at the CC sale this weekend

 

[ScottB]

Can I add frags of soft corals without an issue. I was hoping to get something at the CC sale this weekend

Pile those in they will be fine! The more the merrier.

Maybe skip the Homewrecker on this round?

 

[Just John]

Pile those in they will be fine! The more the merrier.

Maybe skip the Homewrecker on this round?

Thanks for the help, as always!