Phosphate 0.104 ppm

[kevin_e]

The Nyos or Red sea pro are the two test kits i've used that I like. I would't do much of anything till you test and see if this is even the problem. It very well might not be.

10-4. Then I'll see about getting it tested. Assuming nitrate isn't the problem, what would the next candidate be?

 

[Justfebreezeit]

10-4. Then I'll see about getting it tested. Assuming nitrate isn't the problem, what would the next candidate be?

I'll defer to more season vets on that, I haven't been in the Sps game long enough to make guesses that I feel comfortable with.

It is curious that your tank has been up since nov 2017 and has no coralline, something seems to be limiting growth. While not a definitive indicator, coralline is definitely a positive sign.

 

[kevin_e]

I'll defer to more season vets on that, I haven't been in the Sps game long enough to make guesses that I feel comfortable with.

It is curious that your tank has been up since nov 2017 and has no coralline, something seems to be limiting growth. While not a definitive indicator, coralline is definitely a positive sign.

Yes, my thought as well.

 

[Ling_Thing]

I actually don't dose alk. Never have had the need to with this tank.

Wait you don’t dose alk? How do you keep it up then? Constant water changes? If so that’s why your nutes are so low prob

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

And I'll clarify, the STN didn't start from the base or tip per se. Just slowly melted away randomly.

Doesn’t sound like typical stn. Pics would be helpful.

 

[1Blazer]

It is actually time for me to swap out my carbon, but maybe I shouldn't?

I have some minor brown algae that seems to come in waves, probably from the phosphate? Nothing major, just a dusting on glass etc. No hair, no bubble, no cyano or anything like that.

It really comes down to your nitrates — if you don’t feel like testing them you may want to consider an icp test to get readings on your tank. Personally, i test myself but feel it is important to get an outside test of my water just in case one of my tests are out of line. Also, I know it seems counter intuitive but maintaining the balance of no3 and po4 is crucial for sps which is why everyone seems to be pointing at no3. Your tissue necrosis doesn’t sound like a typical rtn or stn. Something you may also want to look into is the redfield ratio. In short... your first step is to determine your levels and make a game plan from there. Also, if it were my tank I would take the carbon off to see if your corals bounce back. It could very well take two weeks to a month to see the coloration come back (will probably see them brown out— not a bad sign because your sps is recovering, then green and finally if you keep everything stable you will get the fluorescent color back in coral). I truly believe that’s your best method of tackling this issue. Lastly, make sure you continue to feed your tank. I understand that your phosphate seems high but it’s not terrible. My tank is currently at 1.5ppm and my coloration is fine. Yes, personally I don’t like that number because it goes against what many will say is too high but finding the balance between nitrate and phosphate is what you are looking for. Down the line you can tweak those levels to improve your tank.

 

[1Blazer]

It really comes down to your nitrates — if you don’t feel like testing them you may want to consider an icp test to get readings on your tank. Personally, i test myself but feel it is important to get an outside test of my water just in case one of my tests are out of line. Also, I know it seems counter intuitive but maintaining the balance of no3 and po4 is crucial for sps which is why everyone seems to be pointing at no3. Your tissue necrosis doesn’t sound like a typical rtn or stn. Something you may also want to look into is the redfield ratio. In short... your first step is to determine your levels and make a game plan from there. Also, if it were my tank I would take the carbon off to see if your corals bounce back. It could very well take two weeks to a month to see the coloration come back (will probably see them brown out— not a bad sign because your sps is recovering, then green and finally if you keep everything stable you will get the fluorescent color back in coral). I truly believe that’s your best method of tackling this issue. Lastly, make sure you continue to feed your tank. I understand that your phosphate seems high but it’s not terrible. My tank is currently at 1.5ppm and my coloration is fine. Yes, personally I don’t like that number because it goes against what many will say is too high but finding the balance between nitrate and phosphate is what you are looking for. Down the line you can tweak those levels to improve your tank.

Just for reference— UC Dippin dots currently

 

[kevin_e]

Wait you don’t dose alk? How do you keep it up then? Constant water changes? If so that’s why your nutes are so low prob

Rarely do water changes. No idea how it stays up. Probablu because there is no consumption.

 

[kevin_e]

It really comes down to your nitrates — if you don’t feel like testing them you may want to consider an icp test to get readings on your tank. Personally, i test myself but feel it is important to get an outside test of my water just in case one of my tests are out of line. Also, I know it seems counter intuitive but maintaining the balance of no3 and po4 is crucial for sps which is why everyone seems to be pointing at no3. Your tissue necrosis doesn’t sound like a typical rtn or stn. Something you may also want to look into is the redfield ratio. In short... your first step is to determine your levels and make a game plan from there. Also, if it were my tank I would take the carbon off to see if your corals bounce back. It could very well take two weeks to a month to see the coloration come back (will probably see them brown out— not a bad sign because your sps is recovering, then green and finally if you keep everything stable you will get the fluorescent color back in coral). I truly believe that’s your best method of tackling this issue. Lastly, make sure you continue to feed your tank. I understand that your phosphate seems high but it’s not terrible. My tank is currently at 1.5ppm and my coloration is fine. Yes, personally I don’t like that number because it goes against what many will say is too high but finding the balance between nitrate and phosphate is what you are looking for. Down the line you can tweak those levels to improve your tank.

Thanks. I'll take carbon offline and get a number on the nitrate and go from there.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

It’s not the no3 or Po4.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-home-tank.296635/

You don’t have to balance the no3 and Po4 in a tank. That’s not how the redfield ratio works. Read the actual work by redfield.
Then the numerous scientific papers and works that it’s in when organisms don’t utilize the that uptake ratio because they revive their carbon nitrogen and phosphorus in forms other than no3 and Po4.

No clue why it was suggested to take carbon off line unless you’re running a massive amount in reactor.
That’s not how carbon works.

Light nutrients and food do have a relationship.

This article his usage and understanding of the redfield is a tad off base but ....
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/h...d-i-dont-know-what-to-do.210035/#post-2401666

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Could that combination contribute to STN? I'm a little surprised that phosphate would be high and nitrate low.

Also, and maybe it is unrelated, I have never had any coraline growth in this tank. Really no growth of anyting at all outside of minor encrusting for a brief period. This tank has been up since Nov. 2017.

No3 and Po4 work differently. So there’s not really a realtionship on how they accumulate.

A lot of corraline are actually quite low light. Take a look a a lot of old school highlight tanks. Not a lot of visable corraline in the rock in a lot of them. Pinks have a tendency to be prevalent in highlight tanks. And minerals and dosing methods do seem to continue to some of these.
Tropic Marine makes pink like crazy for instance where as ESV did not for me.
Def look at your source water though. Ime , usually a problem for Corralines. Anti algal and bacterials can did that.

An icp may be in order just to see if you have an excessive amount of an element like copper.

 

[1Blazer]

It’s not the no3 or Po4.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-home-tank.296635/

You don’t have to balance the no3 and Po4 in a tank. That’s not how the redfield ratio works. Read the actual work by redfield.
Then the numerous scientific papers and works that it’s in when organisms don’t utilize the that uptake ratio because they revive their carbon nitrogen and phosphorus in forms other than no3 and Po4.

No clue why it was suggested to take carbon off line unless you’re running a massive amount in reactor.
That’s not how carbon works.

Light nutrients and food do have a relationship.

This article his usage and understanding of the redfield is a tad off base but ....
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/h...d-i-dont-know-what-to-do.210035/#post-2401666

@saltyfilmfolks Just basing my suggestions from the following:

jump ahead to 16:30 where the redfield ratio is discussed:

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/vide...-time-to-dose-nitrate-brstv-tank-trials-ep20/

Also based off of:

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/vide...the-relation-between-nitrates-and-phosphates/

Lastly, in a NO3 limited tank others have found that dosing nitrate can cause a reduction in PO4

and WWCs targeted Nitrate and Phosphate levels:

In regards to why I believe running carbon sparingly (Bubbaque's comment at the bottom- In my opinion he has a very impressive system full of high end acros)

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/sps-and-rox-8-carbon.328083/page-2

and the video @bubbaque is referring too:


Just my two cents and what I use for my tank

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

@saltyfilmfolks Just basing my suggestions from the following:

jump ahead to 16:30 where the redfield ratio is discussed:

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/vide...-time-to-dose-nitrate-brstv-tank-trials-ep20/

Also based off of:

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/vide...the-relation-between-nitrates-and-phosphates/

Lastly, in a NO3 limited tank others have found that dosing nitrate can cause a reduction in PO4

and WWCs targeted Nitrate and Phosphate levels:

In regards to why I believe running carbon sparingly (Bubbaque's comment at the bottom- In my opinion he has a very impressive system full of high end acros)

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/sps-and-rox-8-carbon.328083/page-2

and the video @bubbaque is referring too:


Just my two cents and what I use for my tank

Understood. And they are pretty darn good reccomendations And agreed kinda.
Rox in a reactor will strip some organics. But, those will still break down in the reactor if left. I concur and mentioned not aggressively running it.

If no3 and po3 are both equal levels in a tank that won’t change the rate of uptake of an organism.
That’s my only point.

Many many newer reefers have been compelled to chase those numbers and it can be kinda futile if not impossible.
So having a balance of availability in the system won’t effect things. One just needs to have them available.
But it is very sciencey theory for videos. Mr Farley often comments the same.
If one needs to dose one or the other , those targets are are a fine guideline , but again , nothing to do with uptake ratios of the organisms in question or causing other problems like cyano and algae etc when unbalanced nutrients hppaen naturally, save that many organisms just use more of it.

limited no3 does cause problems much like limiting Po4. For the bacteria, it’s much like organic carbon dosing , adding the no3 to the Po4 and carbon already available will have the effect of lowering both nutrients as the organisms can multiply as they now have the rest of waht they need.
The same effect would be seen if all three were dosed in equal parts.

Lastly, as we refer to this ratio and it’s importance , why is it that we don’t need to or it’s not reccomend by these experts to worry about the amount of the third component of the ratio. Carbon.
Cuz we can’t test for it. IMO.


It’s possible that this tank is no3 limited , Esp with the amount of light being used. Could be just a newish tank and acros. Also a contaminant. All worth looking into.

 

[1Blazer]

Understood. And they are pretty darn good reccomendations And agreed kinda.
Rox in a reactor will strip some organics. But, those will still break down in the reactor if left. I concur and mentioned not aggressively running it.

If no3 and po3 are both equal levels in a tank that won’t change the rate of uptake of an organism.
That’s my only point.

Many many newer reefers have been compelled to chase those numbers and it can be kinda futile if not impossible.
So having a balance of availability in the system won’t effect things. One just needs to have them available.
But it is very sciencey theory for videos. Mr Farley often comments the same.
If one needs to dose one or the other , those targets are are a fine guideline , but again , nothing to do with uptake ratios of the organisms in question or causing other problems like cyano and algae etc when unbalanced nutrients hppaen naturally, save that many organisms just use more of it.

limited no3 does cause problems much like limiting Po4. For the bacteria, it’s much like organic carbon dosing , adding the no3 to the Po4 and carbon already available will have the effect of lowering both nutrients as the organisms can multiply as they now have the rest of waht they need.
The same effect would be seen if all three were dosed in equal parts.

Lastly, as we refer to this ratio and it’s importance , why is it that we don’t need to or it’s not reccomend by these experts to worry about the amount of the third component of the ratio. Carbon.
Cuz we can’t test for it. IMO.


It’s possible that this tank is no3 limited , Esp with the amount of light being used. Could be just a newish tank and acros. Also a contaminant. All worth looking into.

@saltyfilmfolks
Very well said and I think the OP has a lot of information to work through. Great point on if NO3 and PO4 were 1:1--- I think I oversimplified the ratio a bit. Thats also a great point regarding that third component--- Carbon. There is a new ICP test that was released earlier this week that points directly to your Carbon comment. check this out---- https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/n-doc-organics-seawater-analysis-test-kit-triton.html

I think you nailed it on the head that with the amount of light, potentially NO3 limited, in a somewhat young tank (with no Coralline - which I believe is the signal of when your tank is ready for beginner SPS) and the potential for contaminates is where to begin sorting out the issues originally mentioned. I do have one question for @kevin_e ... Are you using RODI water? if so, is it from your LFS or are you making it yourself?

 

[kevin_e]

@saltyfilmfolks
Very well said and I think the OP has a lot of information to work through. Great point on if NO3 and PO4 were 1:1--- I think I oversimplified the ratio a bit. Thats also a great point regarding that third component--- Carbon. There is a new ICP test that was released earlier this week that points directly to your Carbon comment. check this out---- https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/n-doc-organics-seawater-analysis-test-kit-triton.html

I think you nailed it on the head that with the amount of light, potentially NO3 limited, in a somewhat young tank (with no Coralline - which I believe is the signal of when your tank is ready for beginner SPS) and the potential for contaminates is where to begin sorting out the issues originally mentioned. I do have one question for @kevin_e ... Are you using RODI water? if so, is it from your LFS or are you making it yourself?

My own RODI. 4 stage. Flush regularly.