Phosphate blues

[zimmer]

I though my phosphate level was ok. I had tested for it, using kits that shall remain unnamed . Either they were way off, or I misinterpreted results… that’s water under the bridge. I finally got the Hanna ULR tester and Nyos for nitrate. Results- phosphate was blinking .90 - not good. I repeated it with the same results. And so the water changes have begun. I have a 65 gallon tank, 6 months old. I have now done 4 changes of 15-20% over 4 days and added Chemipure Elite to the filter sock in my sump. After 3 changes my phos was .88. After #4 this morning, .64. My fresh mix is at .04. Moving in the right direction but still a long way to go.

what is curious to me is that I don’t have an algae problem. My water is clear. Fish seem fine. All other parameters are in check except nitrate which is high but hopefully coming down with water changes. I have an anemome on the brink of death which is what started my investigations. The anemone was bleached to begin with but gained color and seemed fine for months. Eating well, hosting a maroon clown who feeds & protects it. Itsdecline started maybe about 6 weeks ago. I now know this is wrong, but I have had that anemone from day 1. I trusted the LFS without doing my own research. Yes, I am new but have learned so much.

so, wondering, as I said, why no algae problems? I assume my source is food, new rock, etc. No GFO until now. Skimmer, filter socks, HOB overflow.

Thanks very much for any input on this

 

[mrlavalamp]

call it luck. Depending on what you started with (dry rock vs. live) I would expect you to still be in the ugly phase at 6 months.

I run similar nutrient levels and I also do not have any algae at all today, I used to have plenty of algae to the point where I stopped running white light at all for about 3 months. I made it out of that phase and the algae never cam back (knock on wood).

I do not keep any nems or SPS, but my LPS softies and zoas seem to be happy in my "dirty" water.

 

[zimmer]

What are your phosphate & nitrate levels?

I have a mix of live & dry rock. I don’t feel like I’ve had an ugly phase - what does that mean exactly anyway? I’ve had some algae & turned lights off for a day oar two, maybe 3 times in 6 months. No hair algae or anything. Green fuzz on my back wall, coralline, that’s about it.
Would those high phosphate numbers impact my anemone?
Thanks

 

[kilnakorr]

I don't want to start any major discussion here, especially since I'm new to saltwater.
For those that have been engaged in planted freshwater tanks might remember that some years back phosphates was to blame for many algae issues, although the opposite has proven to be truth. Phosphates does not increase algae but lack of it can be.
My tank has run months at 0.2-0.3 ppm, but never had any algae other than diatoms in the beginning, and som dusty green stuff later on.
I even tried to grow algae in a 10 gl tank, with 40ppm nitrate and 4 ppm phosphate but even with grow light and several hours direct sunlight I only got some dusting on the glass.

In short, I don't believe phosphate leves causes any type of algae to grow, but simply the symptom of to much decaying organic matter, that (in planted tanks for sure) will kickstart and algae infestation.

 

[mdb_talon]

Results- phosphate was blinking .90 - not good. I repeated it with the same results.

Maybe i am missing something here, but as i understand the URL checker it gives you a reading in phosphorus ppb and you must convert to phosphate ppm? If your checker is showing .9 i think that is an extremely low phosphate reading?

 

[zimmer]

I’m using the Hanna ULR phosphate checker which is ppm.

 

[attiland]

Maybe i am missing something here, but as i understand the URL checker it gives you a reading in phosphorus ppb and you must convert to phosphate ppm? If your checker is showing .9 i think that is an extremely low phosphate reading?

Wrong. The ulr is in ppm. There is one model was doing ppb but it is printed on the front of it. Hard to miss.

I though my phosphate level was ok. I had tested for it, using kits that shall remain unnamed . Either they were way off, or I misinterpreted results… that’s water under the bridge. I finally got the Hanna ULR tester and Nyos for nitrate. Results- phosphate was blinking .90 - not good. I repeated it with the same results. And so the water changes have begun. I have a 65 gallon tank, 6 months old. I have now done 4 changes of 15-20% over 4 days and added Chemipure Elite to the filter sock in my sump. After 3 changes my phos was .88. After #4 this morning, .64. My fresh mix is at .04. Moving in the right direction but still a long way to go.

what is curious to me is that I don’t have an algae problem. My water is clear. Fish seem fine. All other parameters are in check except nitrate which is high but hopefully coming down with water changes. I have an anemome on the brink of death which is what started my investigations. The anemone was bleached to begin with but gained color and seemed fine for months. Eating well, hosting a maroon clown who feeds & protects it. Itsdecline started maybe about 6 weeks ago. I now know this is wrong, but I have had that anemone from day 1. I trusted the LFS without doing my own research. Yes, I am new but have learned so much.

so, wondering, as I said, why no algae problems? I assume my source is food, new rock, etc. No GFO until now. Skimmer, filter socks, HOB overflow.

Thanks very much for any input on this

If nitrate low phosphate is not enough to have algae issue. This is how I understand it anyway.

with high L veld like yours you may need to add nitrate to get rid of phosphate faster.
Also an algae reactor or scrubber would quickly put this right for you. I wouldn’t try to resolve it with water changes. Expensive and temporary solution.

 

[mdb_talon]

Wrong. The ulr is in ppm. There is one model was doing ppb but it is printed on the front of it. Hard to miss.

Yes I looked it up now and see there are two different ones that are "ULR" checkers it was definitely worth mentioning anyway as I have seen that be the issue multiple times on this forum.

 

[vtecintegra]

There is more to growing algae than just nitrate and phosphate. If they are high enough where algae is expected, then something else must be limiting it (iron, potassium, light, etc). Or the clean up crew is doing a really good job of eating it before it's noticeable. I would be tempted to get an ICP done.

 

[Dan_P]

I don't want to start any major discussion here, especially since I'm new to saltwater.
For those that have been engaged in planted freshwater tanks might remember that some years back phosphates was to blame for many algae issues, although the opposite has proven to be truth. Phosphates does not increase algae but lack of it can be.
My tank has run months at 0.2-0.3 ppm, but never had any algae other than diatoms in the beginning, and som dusty green stuff later on.
I even tried to grow algae in a 10 gl tank, with 40ppm nitrate and 4 ppm phosphate but even with grow light and several hours direct sunlight I only got some dusting on the glass.

In short, I don't believe phosphate leves causes any type of algae to grow, but simply the symptom of to much decaying organic matter, that (in planted tanks for sure) will kickstart and algae infestation.

I’ll second the thinking here.

While PO4 is an essential nutrient for algae growth, only a little is needed to cause algae growth, IF other nutrients and conditions are right for growth. Also, once algae has enough to grow like mad, adding more shouldn’t make a difference.

 

[zimmer]

I appreciate everyone’s help! So, what is the “danger” of high phosphates? I have read so much that says to get it within a certain range, but haven’t found an explanation of why it’s bad, what impact there is on a tank outside of algae overgrowth.

 

[vtecintegra]

High phosphate hampers calcification of coral skeletons.

 

[zimmer]

Ahhh thanks for that. What about fish, anemones, snails, crabs - all the non-corals?

 

[kilnakorr]

I’ll second the thinking here.

While PO4 is an essential nutrient for algae growth, only a little is needed to cause algae growth, IF other nutrients and conditions are right for growth. Also, once algae has enough to grow like mad, adding more shouldn’t make a difference.

True.
Some homemade studies suggests, that the algae, which are always present in small numbers, reacts to small ammonia spikes.
These spikes, tells the algae that something is decaying and nutrients will be high in the near future which causes the bloom in algae growth. This makes sense, as you can dose high levels of nutrients without any difference in algae growth.
As a very commen rule to learn when dealing with planted tanks:
Nutrients does not cause algae.

 

[zimmer]

Great information- thanks. What an education I’m getting here.

after 1 bag of chemipure elite and multiple water changes, my phosphate is down to 0.53 and nitrates 25. Ph 8.1, alk 8.5, SG 1.025, temp 78.

Anemone is still hanging in but I’m not very optimistic.

I feel relieved to get the phosphate down and will keep working on it.

thanks again