Phosphate control...running out of options

[Wxguy23]

Okay, quick question for my 75 gal early reef.

All water parameters are fine....except phosphate. Everything looks healthy.

Right now its at PO is at .25ish. The problem is...its been there for a couple months now.

I have run phosguard about 6 times through my HOB 300.
I have gone through entire bottle of Phosphate E
And now I am on my 3rd week of vodka dosing. (.6ml daily)
I do weekly 10-20% water change with good tested water.

I also add H2O2 in my Octopus HOB.

I have reduced lighting to only 5 hours a day

I feed once every 3 days...and not much. I swear my fish look skinny.

I have hair algae that is growing healthy, especially on my wavemakers and back of the wall. And a daily green to scrape off the front.

Thoughts on what I haven't done.

 

[cjpitt80]

Okay, quick question for my 75 gal early reef.

All water parameters are fine....except phosphate. Everything looks healthy.

Right now its at PO is at .25ish. The problem is...its been there for a couple months now.

I have run phosguard about 6 times through my HOB 300.
I have gone through entire bottle of Phosphate E
And now I am on my 3rd week of vodka dosing. (.6ml daily)
I do weekly 10-20% water change with good tested water.

I also add H2O2 in my Octopus HOB.

I have reduced lighting to only 5 hours a day

I feed once every 3 days...and not much. I swear my fish look skinny.

I have hair algae that is growing healthy, especially on my wavemakers and back of the wall. And a daily green to scrape off the front.

Thoughts on what I haven't done.

What are you using to check your PO4 level? I'm going thru something quite similar myself... I'd be careful with Phosphat-E https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/triton-testing-and-nutrients.634505/

 

[BluTang85]

I would use GFO. That stuff definitely takes down your phosphates.

 

[JPergamo]

What is your NO3 level at consistently

 

[temfinger]

You need to fine the source of the Phosphates, could be a magnet rusting, over feeding, etc. I have you considered in sending off an ICP test?

 

[sixty_reefer]

After reading true it all, am pretty sure your test kit might be off. Phosphate E is pretty good at removing po4 if you went trough a hole bottle without a dint I wouldn’t be serious considering to try a different brand of test kit just to make sure.

 

[Montiman]

Personally .25 would not stress me out. I have found that If I let Phosphates creep up to .5 and then do one dose of Lanthanum it will get them back down without problems.

If you want to keep phosphates consistently at .03 it is best to use a reactor with GFO. All of the products you have listed are either Lanthanum based or Aluminum based. Iron based removers like GFO are the best at consistently maintaining low levels of phosphate while Lanthanum and Aluminum are better at getting really high levels lower.

 

[Brew12]

Okay, quick question for my 75 gal early reef.

All water parameters are fine....except phosphate. Everything looks healthy.

Right now its at PO is at .25ish. The problem is...its been there for a couple months now.

I have run phosguard about 6 times through my HOB 300.
I have gone through entire bottle of Phosphate E
And now I am on my 3rd week of vodka dosing. (.6ml daily)
I do weekly 10-20% water change with good tested water.

I also add H2O2 in my Octopus HOB.

I have reduced lighting to only 5 hours a day

I feed once every 3 days...and not much. I swear my fish look skinny.

I have hair algae that is growing healthy, especially on my wavemakers and back of the wall. And a daily green to scrape off the front.

Thoughts on what I haven't done.

I think you haven't given it enough time yet. Phosphate will leach into your rock and substrate in an equilibrium with what is in the water. If you pull PO4 out of the water, it will leach out of the rock and replace much of what was removed. If you started with relatively high PO4 levels in your system it can take a very long time using phosphate removers in order to get consistently low PO4 readings in your water.

I would run phosguard continuously in your filter until you not only get it most of the PO4 out of the water, but also give the substrate time to release the PO4 it has bound up into the water. Eventually (and it can take months) you will find you need much less PO4 remover to maintain steady rates.

Two other comments... carbon dosing (vodka) is much more effective at removing nitrates than phosphates. I wouldn't rely on it for PO4 removal even though it does pull out a little.

Feed your fish what they need to be healthy. I'd hate to see you lose fish because you are underfeeding to reduce phosphates.

 

[EW_Fish]

What rock are you using? I know there are plenty of threads stating that pukani rock leaches p04. I read this when buying mine and that it did and still is doing. I rehomed my corals for 2 months and just got them back a few weeks ago. Did a 2 month black out and water changes. Helped but GHA is coming back. Did a quick h202 dip of the rocks and it seems to be doing great after that. Rusting magnet like mentioned above. I had this problem 2 years ago and could never find the source. I have pictures of the magnet I would have never guessed took me 4 months to find the problem.

 

[BluTang85]

What is your NO3 level at consistently

.04-.10 when running gfo

 

[Wxguy23]

What is your NO3 level at consistently

Less than .10 to 0.

 

[Wxguy23]

What are you using to check your PO4 level? I'm going thru something quite similar myself... I'd be careful with Phosphat-E https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/triton-testing-and-nutrients.634505/

API master reef kit

 

[Wxguy23]

After reading true it all, am pretty sure your test kit might be off. Phosphate E is pretty good at removing po4 if you went trough a hole bottle without a dint I wouldn’t be serious considering to try a different brand of test kit just to make sure.

Thought that too. But GHA tells me otherwise.

 

[JayKim]

Phosphate Rx worked for me. follow instructions and it only takes 24 hours.

 

[JPergamo]

Less than .10 to 0.

If your nitrates are barely detectable get those up. Yes I said up. You will start to see in time that a tank that is starved for nitrates will have a hard time processing phosphate and Visa versa. It's a bacterial and microfauna issue, in my experience. I had a very nitrate starved tank for a long time that suffered a phosphate problem and learned the hard way a while back. It's a delicate balance. Just my opinion.

 

[cjpitt80]

.04-.10 when running gfo

Sounds more like a PO4 level...

 

[cjpitt80]

Thought that too. But GHA tells me otherwise.

I'd def look in to this still. A whole bottle (250ml) of Phosphat-E would remove 1ppm PO4 in 1,000 gal By my quick head calculation, 250ml would remove up to 13ppm in a 75 gal tank. I went thru multiple doses of Phostphat-E as well, got a Triton ICP test and PO4 read 0.0068ppm. I think my Hanna checker was off and I stripped too much PO4 too fast and screwed my nutrient balance up. Euphyllia are struggling, NONE of the SPS made it. I'd 100% confirm your PO4 numbers with another brand.

 

[saltyhog]

I think you haven't given it enough time yet. Phosphate will leach into your rock and substrate in an equilibrium with what is in the water. If you pull PO4 out of the water, it will leach out of the rock and replace much of what was removed. If you started with relatively high PO4 levels in your system it can take a very long time using phosphate removers in order to get consistently low PO4 readings in your water.

I would run phosguard continuously in your filter until you not only get it most of the PO4 out of the water, but also give the substrate time to release the PO4 it has bound up into the water. Eventually (and it can take months) you will find you need much less PO4 remover to maintain steady rates.

Two other comments... carbon dosing (vodka) is much more effective at removing nitrates than phosphates. I wouldn't rely on it for PO4 removal even though it does pull out a little.

Feed your fish what they need to be healthy. I'd hate to see you lose fish because you are underfeeding to reduce phosphates.

This!!! Stop dosing vodka immediately. There's a host of disasters possible if your NO3 is really that low.

GFO is very effective at lowering PO4 especially when run in a reactor. However, if PO4 is in your rock and leaching the levels may take some time to come down. There's a sort of equilibrium between the PO4 in the rock and the water. As you remove it from the water more leaches from the rock. That could be why you haven't seen any lowering as of yet.

Less than .10 to 0.

 

[BantyRooster97]

Phosphate Rx worked for me. follow instructions and it only takes 24 hours.

Same here.... had a PO4 problem and this solved it. Now it helps me keep it where I want it

 

[Wxguy23]

I don't have a reactor and no room for one. However does Chemiclean elite work good? Shall I thrown in a bag of this in my HOB?