Phosphate in fresh mixed saltwater

Reefnewb · May 28, 2017

Can anyone tell me if having 40ppb of phosphate in fresh saltwater is normal?! I used a Hanna checker to test it. The reason I tested is because I'm having a horrible phosphate issue in my tank and can not find the source but now I am thinking it's possibly my RODI water. Any help would be appreciated. I'm really at wits end with this who thing and everyday I just wanna throw my tank out the window.... lol

saltyfilmfolks · May 28, 2017

Test your rodi water.

Reefnewb · May 28, 2017

saltyfilmfolks said:
Test your rodi water.

I did and it came up 0 but from what I read a Hanna checker will always come up 0 in that pure of water. Atleast that's what AZdesertrat told me. And my TDS meter reads 1 so there is the possibility.

saltyfilmfolks · May 28, 2017

What salt?

Reefnewb · May 28, 2017

saltyfilmfolks said:
What salt?

It's reef crystals but iv been using it my whole reefing career and iv never had a problem with it. Thought maybe he high phosphates were from my rock that I got from a friend but his tank is beautiful and not leaching any phosphates so I don't think that's it?

saltyfilmfolks · May 28, 2017

Looks like it's actually common with the Hanna and reef crystals.
Weird right?
Pretty much Every thread I found was Hanna and RC. I donnot think it's something to worry about.

Might want to throw the Hanna out the widow instead.

greg 45 · May 28, 2017

I would borrow a quality test to find out if it's from the tap water .
I am using a martini M 412
Water out of tap was 1.25 out of ro/di still high in my opinion 0.06
Adding almost 20 gal of evaporation a day it all adds up .
Keep looking

Reefnewb · May 28, 2017

saltyfilmfolks said:
Looks like it's actually common with the Hanna and reef crystals.
Weird right?
Pretty much Every thread I found was Hanna and RC. I donnot think it's something to worry about.

Might want to throw the Hanna out the widow instead.

Well the thing is I'm having a rediculous algae outbreak and GFO is not handling it so I have to be adding phosphate some where! Just cannot figure out where

saltyfilmfolks · May 28, 2017

Reefnewb said:
Well the thing is I'm having a rediculous algae outbreak and GFO is not handling it so I have to be adding phosphate some where! Just cannot figure out where

What's the tank po at?

It would be good to get the rodi tested and down to 0, but still that's pretty odd.

greg 45 · May 29, 2017

If tank po4 is high you can use lanthium chloride to bring it down. It will be cheaper than using gfo . Just read up on it before using .

Reefnewb · May 29, 2017

saltyfilmfolks said:
What's the tank po at?

It would be good to get the rodi tested and down to 0, but still that's pretty odd.

The tanks Phosphate has been as low as 9ppb and as high as 60ppb... so something is adding it

Randy Holmes-Farley · May 29, 2017

Reefnewb said:
Can anyone tell me if having 40ppb of phosphate in fresh saltwater is normal?! I used a Hanna checker to test it. The reason I tested is because I'm having a horrible phosphate issue in my tank and can not find the source but now I am thinking it's possibly my RODI water. Any help would be appreciated. I'm really at wits end with this who thing and everyday I just wanna throw my tank out the window.... lol

If the water is 0 ppm TDS water, it isn't any significant source of phosphate relative to foods.

Randy Holmes-Farley · May 29, 2017

Reefnewb said:
The tanks Phosphate has been as low as 9ppb and as high as 60ppb... so something is adding it

Foods add massive amounts every day.

Randy Holmes-Farley · May 29, 2017

greg 45 said:
I would borrow a quality test to find out if it's from the tap water .
I am using a martini M 412
Water out of tap was 1.25 out of ro/di still high in my opinion 0.06
Adding almost 20 gal of evaporation a day it all adds up .
Keep looking

0.06 ppm phosphate in RO/DI water is insignificant:

Phosphate And Math: Yes You Need To Understand Both
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/3/chemistry

Comparison of Food Sources of Phosphate to Other Sources
What about other sources of phosphate, like the "crappy" RO/DI water containing 0.05 ppm phosphate? A similar analysis will show it equally unimportant relative to foods.

Let's assume that the aquarist in question adds 1% of the total tank volume each day with RO/DI to replace evaporation. Simple math shows that the 0.05 ppm in the RO/DI becomes 0.0005 ppm added each day to the phosphate concentration in the aquarium. That dilution step is critical, taking a scary number like 0.05 ppm down to an almost meaningless 0.0005 ppm daily addition. Since that 0.0005 ppm is 40-600 times lower than the amount added each day in foods (Table 4), it does not seem worthy of the angst many aquarists put on such measurements. That said, tap water could have as much as 5 ppm phosphate, and that value could then become a dominating source of phosphate and would be quite problematic. Purifying tap water is important for this and many other reasons.

Reefnewb · May 29, 2017

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
0.06 ppm phosphate in RO/DI water is insignificant:

Phosphate And Math: Yes You Need To Understand Both
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/3/chemistry

Comparison of Food Sources of Phosphate to Other Sources
What about other sources of phosphate, like the "crappy" RO/DI water containing 0.05 ppm phosphate? A similar analysis will show it equally unimportant relative to foods.

Let's assume that the aquarist in question adds 1% of the total tank volume each day with RO/DI to replace evaporation. Simple math shows that the 0.05 ppm in the RO/DI becomes 0.0005 ppm added each day to the phosphate concentration in the aquarium. That dilution step is critical, taking a scary number like 0.05 ppm down to an almost meaningless 0.0005 ppm daily addition. Since that 0.0005 ppm is 40-600 times lower than the amount added each day in foods (Table 4), it does not seem worthy of the angst many aquarists put on such measurements. That said, tap water could have as much as 5 ppm phosphate, and that value could then become a dominating source of phosphate and would be quite problematic. Purifying tap water is important for this and many other reasons.

Thanks for the info! I was hoping you would chime in here. My tank is a 180g with a reef octopus 250 regal. I only have 5 fish in it and feed very minimal once a day with LRS reef frenzy. Iv never had this kind of problem before I was hoping it was just my RODI water but I guess I have to keep looking? Because even if I am adding some phosphate via food my GFO should be removing it right?

Reefnewb · May 29, 2017

@Randy Holmes-Farley for a tester I put 5 gallons of RODI water in a salt bucket and ran 10tbspns of GFO in a reactor to try and get all the phosphate out of it. Then I added the salt and took the reactor offline and let it stir for a day, then tested for phosphates and got 11PPB. And just for fun I turned the reactor back in for another day and tested phosphates again and got 17ppb! How could this be?! I'm using BRS standard GFO

Randy Holmes-Farley · May 29, 2017

Might just be testing error.

Reefnewb · May 29, 2017

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Might just be testing error.

When I clean the glass in my tank it will come back in an hour and there are bubbles being released off of sandbed and rocks I was told that's a bacteria bloom being fed by high phosphates?

petemichelle · Jul 28, 2017

i keep reading these threads and you know, I have two questions i would like really simple answers to.
1. if I start off with a brand new ro/di 6 stage reactor, will/ should my ro/di output, before putting it in anything to hold or store, be 0 phosphates?
2. after using this ro/di water to mix fresh salt (red sea blue bucket) should the phosphate be also 0?