phosphate issue

Jay6363 · Oct 15, 2013

I have been having one heck of a time lately with my phosphates in the last few months....... I have a mature 3-4 yr old tank. It 60 gallon tank with a 30 gallon sump. 3 mp-10's for flow. Two water changes a week with esv salt, and I have been running red sea No3Po4 as my carbon dosing. Up till a few months ago i have never had any issues with my nitrates or phosphates, however now i cant keep them in control. Nitrates are solid at .5-1ppm..... Phosphates range from 0.08- .32, I already run GFO, changed me rodi filters. I run my carbon source on a dosing pump. Cut back feedings.

I have ruled out all the thing i can think of, I have started using phosphate rx that drops it down to.02-.03 and it is exported through my skimmer...... but thats a band aide not the fix.

I am wondering if some how I destroyed the bacteria that consumes the Phosphates. please give me suggestions bc it is making me frustrated beyond belief. Thank you

The_Stig · Oct 15, 2013

Did you start doing anything different with feedings? New or different food? What are you feeding?

Jay6363 · Oct 15, 2013

Nothing new same routine as always, only thing is I put my carbon dosing on a dosing pump. Had some issues repeatedly with the pump itself and it had to be replaced three times. Had several bacterial blooms. This is about when I started having problems.

I use spectrum Thera a pellet and frozen food. Both of which I have been using for a long time.but cut it back anyways

mike007 · Oct 15, 2013

Have you tested your rodi water? This may be the source of the phosphates. I also use nopox and had one algae bloom which is normal. When carbon dosing is done correctly you should not have a phosphate issue. Check your rodi water and see if it contains phosphates.

Jay6363 · Oct 15, 2013

I'm about to do that on my next batch.

I just renewed my filters and di resin.that was my original thought. So I was going to test it after a few batches

Reefing Madness · Oct 15, 2013

Whats the TDS out of the RODI?

Jay6363 · Oct 15, 2013

mcarroll · Oct 16, 2013

Check out your sand bed.

You're in the correct range of time to have enough detritus collected around/under rocks and in the sand bed to cause problems.

Swizzle your finger or something around in you sand at the bases of rocks, under the vortechs - anywhere detritus might be likely. Blast out your rocks with a powerhead too.

Rocks are generally cleanable, but if the sand bed is dirty, IMO it's a better use of effort to remove the sand bed vs cleaning it. Replacing it is even optional - go bare bottom! - but cheap if you wanna do so.

-Matt

Jay6363 · Oct 17, 2013

Thx matt, I have actually been really diligent at trying to clean the sand as much as possible.

Does anyone know what macro algae primarily use for grow nitrates or phosphates? I had a die off for so e reason wondering g if that has something to do with it. However my nitrates are still solid at .5-1

mcarroll · Oct 17, 2013

I think green things use ammonium and other nitrogenous compounds...almost no PO4 by comparison. This is why folks get stuck running GFO too.

FWIW, if you aren't overfeeding and you don't think the tank is overstocked, don't think it's from the RODI...the excess nutrients are coming from somewhere. I'd still give the sand and rocks a check. Can't hurt, and you would not be the first to be surprised.

And just like the rest of us trying to keep our sand clean, your "try" is up against gravity which keeps a pretty brutal 24/7 schedule that pretty much defines vigilance.

-Matt

Jay6363 · Oct 18, 2013

Thanks bud, i wouldn't be surprised if that was the case...... When I said diligent I meant in the most recent months or so when I started having the issue. Let's say it was my sand or live rock I would pretty much have to let it run it's coarse? And clean as best as I could? Let the Gfo continues to absorb?

There is particular bacteria that export it via carbon dosing. Correct?

I'm making a new batch of rodi tomm. I will post my results. I appreciate all of your suggestions!!!

creefer · Oct 18, 2013

Perfect timing on this thread. I too am having similar issues. Please keep this updated so we all can learn from your experience. My system is very similar in size to yours but I was using biopellets......until just over a week ago when I took them off line to see if I could rectify my issues. The difference for me is that I'm testing 0 PO4 via hanna but have HA. I've been doing as Matt suggested as well with the powerhead and rocks and typically clean half my send bed with each WC, which are done weekly. As Matt said, it's seemingly a detritus issue for me. I need sand for my wrasses though, so getting rid of it entirely is not really an option for me.

akitareefer · Oct 18, 2013

If you can't find the source going into your tank its usually your live rock leaching phosphates. I'd swap out some live rock and see if you can better maintain your levels. Battling phosphates is a pain and very costly

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mcarroll · Oct 19, 2013

Jay6363 said:
Let's say it was my sand or live rock I would pretty much have to let it run it's coarse?

Rocks are generally cleanable, but if the sand bed is dirty, I would remove it vs cleaning it. Replacing it is optional - go bare bottom! - but cheap if you wanna do so. Remove it via siphon over the course of 4-5 water changes.

Jay6363 said:
There is particular bacteria that export it via carbon dosing. Correct?

Two facts stand out as an answer to that: #1: Amazingly, none of the cabon-dosing products make any specific claims whatsoever. #2: GFO manufacturers are still making a killing.

If you aren't nipping the PO4 problem in the bud - whether it's overstocking, bad flow, or just a dirty sand bed - you're probably chasing your tail.

-Matt

Jay6363 · Oct 26, 2013

So little update I decided to pull al my sps out and found a gracious reefer friend to house everything till I get things straight.

Bought a house and moving soon so it was kinda perfect timing I guess. So I'm going to aggressively vacuum all my sand restructure my rock work and possibly change out my sand

Sooo phosphate battle rages on

bct15 · Oct 26, 2013

Carbon dosing does very little to remove phosphates, it helps a little but is more for nitrates. You will still need gfo.

Good luck on the resanding and rescaping