Phosphate question

[encathal]

Hi,

How many of you notice that your salt mix is adding phosphate to your tank?

I notice my tank levels have been going up, which I expect just by having livestock. But I was wondering if I have an issue with my source.

I did two test. I tested my RO/DI which had .070. I will be changing my DI resin to see if that fixes that.

The second test was done after I made a mix. The level was .14. I am using Reef Crystal. Which I am moving to a different salt.

I am waiting to get some Cheato (SP) so that will help when I get that going.

But have any of you notice this?

Thanks

Richard

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

This is a common concern that is not really worth worrying about since that amount is tiny compared to daily additions with foods. Just make sure the TDS of the RO/DI effluent is 0 and there will not be enough phosphate to be a problem, even if a test makes it look like a lot.

I discuss your exact situation here:

Aquarium Chemistry: Phosphate And Math: Yes You Need To Understand Both

Foods are by far the most important source of phosphate in most aquariums. In considering whether sources of phosphate other than foods are important, one must carefully look to the actual amounts involved to determine whether other sources are even worth trying to minimize.

reefs.com

Comparison of Food Sources of Phosphate to Other Sources
What about other sources of phosphate, like the “crappy” RO/DI water containing 0.05 ppm phosphate? A similar analysis will show it equally unimportant relative to foods.

Let’s assume that the aquarist in question adds 1% of the total tank volume each day with RO/DI to replace evaporation. Simple math shows that the 0.05 ppm in the RO/DI becomes 0.0005 ppm added each day to the phosphate concentration in the aquarium. That dilution step is critical, taking a scary number like 0.05 ppm down to an almost meaningless 0.0005 ppm daily addition. Since that 0.0005 ppm is 40-600 times lower than the amount added each day in foods (Table 4), it does not seem worthy of the angst many aquarists put on such measurements. That said, tap water could have as much as 5 ppm phosphate, and that value could then become a dominating source of phosphate and would be quite problematic. Purifying tap water is important for this and many other reasons.

 

[encathal]

This is a common concern that is not really worth worrying about since that amount is tiny compared to daily additions with foods. Just make sure the TDS of the RO/DI effluent is 0 and there will not be enough phosphate to be a problem, even if a test makes it look like a lot.

I discuss your exact situation here:

Aquarium Chemistry: Phosphate And Math: Yes You Need To Understand Both

Foods are by far the most important source of phosphate in most aquariums. In considering whether sources of phosphate other than foods are important, one must carefully look to the actual amounts involved to determine whether other sources are even worth trying to minimize.

reefs.com

Comparison of Food Sources of Phosphate to Other Sources
What about other sources of phosphate, like the “crappy” RO/DI water containing 0.05 ppm phosphate? A similar analysis will show it equally unimportant relative to foods.

Let’s assume that the aquarist in question adds 1% of the total tank volume each day with RO/DI to replace evaporation. Simple math shows that the 0.05 ppm in the RO/DI becomes 0.0005 ppm added each day to the phosphate concentration in the aquarium. That dilution step is critical, taking a scary number like 0.05 ppm down to an almost meaningless 0.0005 ppm daily addition. Since that 0.0005 ppm is 40-600 times lower than the amount added each day in foods (Table 4), it does not seem worthy of the angst many aquarists put on such measurements. That said, tap water could have as much as 5 ppm phosphate, and that value could then become a dominating source of phosphate and would be quite problematic. Purifying tap water is important for this and many other reasons.

Thanks for the info. You gave me the support that my concern about the supply is not that big. I know I have to make changes to my feeding habits. which I started. This is my stock right now.

Bubble Tip Anemone ~ 2in
Marron Clown ~ 1in
Marron Clown ~ 1.5in
2 spot Goby ~ 2in
Brain Coral Frag ~1in
Shaggy Pipe Organ ~ 1in
Zoands ~ 1in (two of these)

All living right now in a CADE Reef 900 S2.

The change I made to my feeding habit recently now doing the following:

Daily
about 15-20 small pellets of fish food.(.30cc, using a measuring spoon I have)
1ml of ployp-booster
1/4 teaspoon of reef-roids (thinking of reducing this more since the # of coral I have is low)

Everyone looks happy in the tanks and no reaction the to phosphate level. Nitrates are around 30, this would also support your comment about feeding.

Thanks

Richard

 

[blasterman]

What matters is existing nuisance algae and that phosphate isn't slowly climbing.

If everything is looking good and phosphate is staying about the same, well, if it aint broke don't fix it

We've known salt mixes have been a source of trace phosphate for some time.

 

[encathal]

What matters is existing nuisance algae and that phosphate isn't slowly climbing.

If everything is looking good and phosphate is staying about the same, well, if it aint broke don't fix it

We've known salt mixes have been a source of trace phosphate for some ti

What matters is existing nuisance algae and that phosphate isn't slowly climbing.

If everything is looking good and phosphate is staying about the same, well, if it aint broke don't fix it

We've known salt mixes have been a source of trace phosphate for some time.

Yeah agree.

I had this up for a month now. In the past 2 weeks the phosphates have increase. I wanted to make sure that I was ok with the source and that it is "normal". I am doing my weekly water changes and started this week to increase the vol being change.

Thanks

Richard

 

[Treefer32]

I use reef crystals, and I had tested my source (mixed) salt water and it tested at .03 ppm. I changed out my RODI as well as it was reading 1 TDS after the DI. I haven't retested, but I figured and Randy validated that anything under .1 ppm is not a big deal in new water.

My display was up to .66 ppm. That's an issue. I lost several corals at that point. I upped the lighting schedule on my turf scrubber, added more fish (seems counter intuitive, but I'll explain why I don't think it is) and I added my skimmer back into the mix. I've maintained my phosphates at .08 or less now for the past two months since taking 2 months prior to reduce them from .66.

Why I think more fish is actually improving my situation is, it cuased a bacterial bloom, that is causing phosphates and nitrates to be reduced faster and more efficiently. Possibly faster than what the additional fish and food for them produces. Each time I've added fish I've noticed things improve in the overall system. I believe there is a point at which a too light of a bio load does not yield the bacteria needed to maintain the bio load, so you get colonies growing and then starving and dying off then starting back up. The higher bioloads yield more food and supply to the bacteria causing them to live and hang around longer.

I don't know if the science matches that, would be an interesting study, but, it's my hypothesis. I had way more algae in my 350 gallon display (hair algae, Bryopsis, and other fuzzy algaes starting to overtake things) when I ran it with 1 fish for about 9 months. I was amazed at the amount of algae my tank produced, even with an algae turf scrubber and skimmer at the time. Since gradually going from 1 fish two years ago to 28 fish now, the bryopsis is gone, the hair algae is gone, and things look a lot healthier....

I wish I understood the biology of why there's more algae when the tank is "too lightly" stocked vs. moderately stocked. I fed significantly less when I had one tang.... I mean significantly less... I go through probably 2 ounces of frozen food a day with 28 fish many of them larger.. plus a sheet of nori. Before it was 1/4" sheet of nori and maybe a tiny cube of frozen food...