Phosphate rec. level

[Arod0416]

Hello everyone,

I am back on the reef tank journey. I had a reef tank for 3 year but, I slowly fell off and Restarted. But, now I come back and want to be extremely knowledgeable. This time around I want to do something different, which is, eventually adding a mixture of lps and sps corals in a couple of months.
My phosphate level is at 1 right now.
Is this a good or bad thing?
how do I raise or lower it?
many recommendedphosphate testing products?
Thank you so much!

 

[W1ngz]

1 is extremely high. What are you testing it with? The first thing to do is make sure you have a reputable, reliable tester. Liquid tests don't have a reputation for being accurate. Most recommend ultra low range Hanna testers. The consensus these days is phosphates below 0.1, targeting closer to 0.03-0.05.

Things that increase phosphate: food, dirty filter socks, dead things in the tank, new live rock that is still curing and may have dead stuff in it.
Things that remove phosphates: GFO, water changes, skimming, regularly changing filter socks/floss, and refugiums with macroalgae.

There are also products like No3PO4x (Nopox) designed to lower nitrates and phosphates, but my opinion is your better to work towards balancing the in and out. If your nitrates are also extremely high, a product to lower them quickly down to a more reasonable range might be a good start, if you can identify where they are coming from. Most of those products are just carbon dosing, which can also be done with vinegar or vodka.

You want to track and manage your nitrates at the same time as phosphates.

 

[NanoDJS]

phosphates at 1 is no issue I run a mixed reef in that range alot as long as you have the nitrates to support it and I typically say this , high nutrients = high flow high light , lower nutes lower flow lower lights , you could start to carbon dose to slowly lower it naturally and in line with the nitrates. Try to keep a 16:1 n/p ratio or close to it and you should be fine. Figure it like this p @1 N @ 20 ish , [email protected] N @ 10 ish , p@ .25 N @ 5 ish

 

[Cell]

Uh 1 or .1? 1 is insanely high. .1 is great.

 

[Arod0416]

1 is extremely high. What are you testing it with? The first thing to do is make sure you have a reputable, reliable tester. Liquid tests don't have a reputation for being accurate. Most recommend ultra low range Hanna testers. The consensus these days is phosphates below 0.1, targeting closer to 0.03-0.05.

Things that increase phosphate: food, dirty filter socks, dead things in the tank, new live rock that is still curing and may have dead stuff in it.
Things that remove phosphates: GFO, water changes, skimming, regularly changing filter socks/floss, and refugiums with macroalgae.

There are also products like No3PO4x (Nopox) designed to lower nitrates and phosphates, but my opinion is your better to work towards balancing the in and out. If your nitrates are also extremely high, a product to lower them quickly down to a more reasonable range might be a good start, if you can identify where they are coming from.

You want to track and manage your nitrates at the same time as phosphates.

I am testing with salifert phosphate testing kit. I just added fish to my new tank two days ago. I have been running this tank for a couple of months now. Ever since I added the new fishes to my tank. My reading are:
Ph: 8.2
Ammonia: 0.25 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 40 ppm

do you think I should get phosguard? I have seen other forums recommending this products while, some people are againstit. Any thoughts??

 

[Arod0416]

Uh 1 or .1? 1 is insanely high. .1 is great.

Just 1. A whole number 1

 

[Cell]

What is your rock situation? That phosphate is coming from somewhere.

 

[Arod0416]

phosphates at 1 is no issue I run a mixed reef in that range alot as long as you have the nitrates to support it and I typically say this , high nutrients = high flow high light , lower nutes lower flow lower lights , you could start to carbon dose to slowly lower it naturally and in line with the nitrates. Try to keep a 16:1 n/p ratio or close to it and you should be fine. Figure it like this p @1 N @ 20 ish , [email protected] N @ 10 ish , p@ .25 N @ 5 ish

My nitrate level at this moment is 40 ppm, nitrite is t 0. Ammonia at 0.25 ppm and ph level at 8.2. You think Iowering the phosphate level is a must?

 

[W1ngz]

do you think I should get phosguard

I can't answer that without knowing your nitrate levels, and a more precise phosphate measurement. Targeting only one thing isn't the best approach. See above about the 16:1 nitrate to phosphate.

Your bigger concern right now should be the 0.25ppm ammonia. That's a common false reading with some tests, but a problem if you can corroborate it with a second type of test.

 

[Arod0416]

What is your rock situation? That phosphate is coming from somewhere.

I have live rocks and some dry rocks. These rocks were from my previous saltwater tank that has been for 3 years. But, once I bought that tank down. I thoroughly washed the live rocks before putting it in my new tank. Also, I bought live sand when I first started to run this tank. (All before I added fishes 2 days ago)

 

[Arod0416]

I can't answer that without knowing your nitrate levels, and a more precise phosphate measurement. Targeting only one thing isn't the best approach. See above about the 16:1 nitrate to phosphate.

Your bigger concern right now should be the 0.25ppm ammonia. That's a common false reading with some tests, but a problem if you can corroborate it with a second type of test.

My nitrate level at this moment is 40 ppm.

 

[W1ngz]

Given that this is a recently set up tank, I'd just manage the nitrates and phosphates with water changes for the first few months. You're not new to reefing, so I'll assume you're already familiar with stabilizing alkalinity, calcium and magnesium. Here's what I would do for the next 3-4 months to allow things to settle, before concerning myself with the nitrate and phosphate levels:

1. Stop adding livestock until you figure out the 0.25ppm ammonia number, it's either a test problem or a water problem.
2. Water changes to manage nitrate and phosphate. They're probably coming from the rock and will need time to break down and come out. Chasing those numbers will be a frustrating and futile use of your time.
3. Focus on the big 3 elements, and plan whatever dosing or reactor you want to maintain them.

 

[Cell]

Given that this is a recently set up tank, I'd just manage the nitrates and phosphates with water changes for the first few months. You're not new to reefing, so I'll assume you're already familiar with stabilizing alkalinity, calcium and magnesium. Here's what I would do for the next 3-4 months to allow things to settle, before concerning myself with the nitrate and phosphate levels.

Water changes to manage nitrate and phosphate. They're probably coming from the rock and will need time to break down and come out. Chasing those numbers will be a frustrating and futile use of your time.
Focus on the big 3 elements, and plan whatever dosing or reactor you want to maintain them.

Isn't it a bit odd to have such high nutrient levels though in a new tank with fish added just 2 days ago?

 

[W1ngz]

Isn't it a bit odd to have such high nutrient levels though in a new tank with fish added just 2 days ago?

Not if it was started with some dead live rock. See post #10 above.

 

[Cell]

Not if it was started with some dead live rock. See post #10 above.

Bah. I need to go study up on the phosphate/nitrate relationship I guess. Normal protocol for formerly live rock would be to soak/wash/cure it and wait until phosphate levels stop rising because high phosphate is a pita down the line, no? So are you simply advocating then for a high nutrient system? My understanding is the vast majority of reefers run low nutrient systems so I'm wondering if recommending a high nutrient system to a sort of new reefer would make things more difficult for them down the line or does not chasing parameters outweigh this?

 

[W1ngz]

That's not what I'm saying at all. My suggestion is to not fight with this phosphate and nitrate levels at all, and manage them with water changes until they finish curing and the levels stop rising. That's the reasoning for my item #2 in post 12.

 

[Cell]

That's not what I'm saying at all. My suggestion is to not fight with this phosphate and nitrate levels at all, and manage them with water changes until they finish curing and the levels stop rising. That's the reasoning for my item #2 in post 12.

I guess the term manage is just a bit broad. The tank has been running for a couple months, it's definitely cycled. If I were him, I would do a few large water changes over 2 or 3 weeks and get that phosphate back in check.

 

[Lizbeli]

That's not what I'm saying at all. My suggestion is to not fight with this phosphate and nitrate levels at all, and manage them with water changes until they finish curing and the levels stop rising. That's the reasoning for my item #2 in post 12.

+1 on this. Water changes with good rodi water is the way to go this point imo. Im not sure how you “washed” you old live rock, but its probable that dead organic matter is going to leach into the water for a bit.

 

[Arod0416]

Given that this is a recently set up tank, I'd just manage the nitrates and phosphates with water changes for the first few months. You're not new to reefing, so I'll assume you're already familiar with stabilizing alkalinity, calcium and magnesium. Here's what I would do for the next 3-4 months to allow things to settle, before concerning myself with the nitrate and phosphate levels:

1. Stop adding livestock until you figure out the 0.25ppm ammonia number, it's either a test problem or a water problem.
2. Water changes to manage nitrate and phosphate. They're probably coming from the rock and will need time to break down and come out. Chasing those numbers will be a frustrating and futile use of your time.
3. Focus on the big 3 elements, and plan whatever dosing or reactor you want to maintain them.

Thank you so much for the information. I will definitely stop adding livestock and I just finished doing the water change. So, I’ll continuously do this for next couple of months.

 

[Cell]

How large is this tank? How much rock are we talking about? With fish, flow, and CUC I can't imagine it should be spiking phosphate for multiple months. A few weeks seems more reasonable. I could be wrong.