Phosphates .03ppm - Should I still use Remover? Rowa/Phosban/Gfo?

[swk]

Well, you're going to do what you think is best, but there's so many other things that can cause problems with sps, and phosphate ain't one of them. Look at my tank. Those were all frags 3 years ago. If you want more help dialing in what's going on I'm more than willing to help, but I'm going to go ahead and make the call now - it's not related to phosphate and gfo is not going to solve your problems.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

You don't think the low P04 could be due to the dead rock sucking it in?

No. It doesn't work quite like that.

If it's dusty funk, the gfo may be a good thing, possibly diatoms. It'll pull that out. But it should have already passed.

Fwiw. My sps dom 30gal has a tunze skimmer (not a good one), an ato , powerheads , small hob fuge , doser and a light

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Well, you're going to do what you think is best, but there's so many other things that can cause problems with sps, and phosphate ain't one of them. Look at my tank. Those were all frags 3 years ago. If you want more help dialing in what's going on I'm more than willing to help, but I'm going to go ahead and make the call now - it's not related to phosphate and gfo is not going to solve your problems.

Agreed.

 

[Donovan Joannes]

That level is fine. Any lower (or worst - zero) you will have a lot of problem rather than solving a small problem you had. If it is a new tank (less than a year), diatom/cyano/algae are part of the challenges every reefers will face. Let it mature on its own, you will get the best long term success this way. I do, and no regrets.

 

[tutmatt3]

Well, you're going to do what you think is best, but there's so many other things that can cause problems with sps, and phosphate ain't one of them. Look at my tank. Those were all frags 3 years ago. If you want more help dialing in what's going on I'm more than willing to help, but I'm going to go ahead and make the call now - it's not related to phosphate and gfo is not going to solve your problems.

I would love help dialing it in. And have been doing my best to dial in everything else 1 thing at a time. This whole P04 thing has been the one I've been skeptical about (as you can see, what's why I made a thread), and before having my hanna checker, I thought I was lacking P04, so actually have some on hand ready to dose. But the checker came in, and levels were .03, so I didn't.
GFO was just the one thing I saw other vew successful tanks locally using, while I wasn't.

No. It doesn't work quite like that.

If it's dusty funk, the gfo may be a good thing, possibly diatoms. It'll pull that out. But it should have already passed.

Fwiw. My sps dom 30gal has a tunze skimmer (not a good one), an ato , powerheads , small hob fuge , doser and a light

Thanks for the equip list. Yeah the dusty funk is a big concern (not just because of the looks, but any sps that had' tissue loss got covered w/ it, and I don't have good experiences toothbrushing that in the past)
I know there appears to be a good amount of recommendations against the use of it, but do you think if used - possibly just temp until the brown gunk is removed, then remove GFO? & obviously watch if the cycle starts again
I think no fuge / sump for this system caused quite a few problems I've been trying to resolve
As mentioned in the previous article, the sediment build up doesn't blow off. There are certain small sections where I see rock again - but not sure if thats the CUC or Waste away doing its thing.
More CUC come in tomorrow

That level is fine. Any lower (or worst - zero) you will have a lot of problem rather than solving a small problem you had. If it is a new tank (less than a year), diatom/cyano/algae are part of the challenges every reefers will face. Let it mature on its own, you will get the best long term success this way. I do, and no regrets.

So I guess what is the main reasons why many other reefers do use GFO then?
Obviously it enters in the tank one way or another, food, etc - but what causes some tanks to require GFO vs others not?
I doubt my system w/ small frags use up that much P04, especially when they're not growing lol. So how else do they leave my system?

I assume skimmer/rinsing my filters will get those out.

 

[Donovan Joannes]

editing

 

[Reefltx]

If you have algae and getting .03ppm on po4, it could be higher. Remember most test kits have a certain accuracy amount. I get 0ppm with daily testing with my Hanna ULR but triton results showed close to .04

I have dusty algae on the glass almost daily and diatoms on sand bed. I added a small amount (1/2 cup) of GFO in a reactor within days some of my sps are looking a lot better, especially monti's. I'm seeing new tips daily.

 

[tutmatt3]

If you have algae and getting .03ppm on po4, it could be higher. Remember most test kits have a certain accuracy amount. I get 0ppm with daily testing with my Hanna ULR but triton results showed close to .04

I have dusty on the glass almost daily and diatoms on sand bed. I added a smal of GFO in a reactor within days some of my sps are looking a lot better, especially monti's. I'm seeing new tips daily.

The algae I have is this gunk, rather than hair

Objects w/ hair algae are equipe at the surface, skimmer, HOB, etc.

The dust on the glass daily is at the level of making the tank look cloudy (until its cleaned), but this is happening daily now

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

It could honestly be the phase of your tank.
Also there is something to the maturity of a tank thing.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

The algae I have is this gunk, rather than hair

Objects w/ hair algae are equipe at the surface, skimmer, HOB, etc.

The dust on the glass daily is at the level of making the tank look cloudy (until its cleaned), but this is happening daily now

Do you have corraline growing?

 

[swk]

A lot of people do it for the same reason you are suggesting - so and so uses it so it must be good.

Hell, I used to use it. I took it off and guess what happened, po4 rose a bit aaaaannnndd...... that's it lol.

Nothing changed. In fact things have gotten better over time. No algae no nothing.

So why use something that makes a test result come out "better" but has no real
Impact on my tank?

It's far more likely that your sps issues stem from lighting, trace imbalance, alk instability, overall instability etc, then it is from excess phosphate. All those big beautiful colonies I have were largely grown in po4 levels of over .1 and they grew fast, solid and pretty at that.

 

[Donovan Joannes]

If you have algae and getting .03ppm on po4, it could be higher. Remember most test kits have a certain accuracy amount. I get 0ppm with daily testing with my Hanna ULR but triton results showed close to .04

I have dusty algae on the glass almost daily and diatoms on sand bed. I added a small amount (1/2 cup) of GFO in a reactor within days some of my sps are looking a lot better, especially monti's. I'm seeing new tips daily.

It's all about balance nutrient (import/export). Any excess on nutrients, one species will take an advantage on it and thrive. Usually bacteria and algae are the winner, simply because they are good at it and grow waaaaayyyy faster than corals. That "stupid" corals grows skeleton first, the algae grows muscle straight away

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

A lot of people do it for the same reason you are suggesting - so and so uses it so it must be good.

Hell, I used to use it. I took it off and guess what happened, po4 rose a bit aaaaannnndd...... that's it lol.

Nothing changed. In fact things have gotten better over time. No algae no nothing.

So why use something that makes a test result come out "better" but has no real
Impact on my tank?

It's far more likely that your sps issues stem from lighting, trace imbalance, alk instability, overall instability etc, then it is from excess phosphate. All those big beautiful colonies I have were largely grown in po4 levels of over .1 and they grew fast, solid and pretty at that.

+1. Lack of corraline indicates high light and alk/cal/mag imo. Or , with brown funk, water issue.

 

[TUSI]

What is the nitrates. For 0.03 po4 you should balance with at least 2ppm nitrate. If you have 0 nitrate you have an imbalance which is a common mistake most do IMO

 

[tutmatt3]

Do you have corraline growing?

Very minimal. Lights were too low, so bumped them up & started getting spots. Tiny spots here & there on rocks, and few circular spots on glass/equipment
Ever since the brown gunk, is kinda just halted

A lot of people do it for the same reason you are suggesting - so and so uses it so it must be good.

Hell, I used to use it. I took it off and guess what happened, po4 rose a bit aaaaannnndd...... that's it lol.

Nothing changed. In fact things have gotten better over time. No algae no nothing.

So why use something that makes a test result come out "better" but has no real
Impact on my tank?

It's far more likely that your sps issues stem from lighting, trace imbalance, alk instability, overall instability etc, then it is from excess phosphate. All those big beautiful colonies I have were largely grown in po4 levels of over .1 and they grew fast, solid and pretty at that.

Well when you used it, did you have an algae issue you're targeting? See I feel as if I'm battling the opposite.
It's not my test result thats giving me issues, it's what I observe in the tank. If I can get rid of that brown gunk, I'd happily pull it afterwards and not use it.
Hell, even dose additional (e: dose additional phospahte that is). I can careless of the # on it, but if removing it can help solve a problem - thats why I feel I would like to test it out temp @ see how the tank reacts.

It's all about balance nutrient (import/export). Any excess on nutrients, one species will take an advantage on it and thrive. Usually bacteria and algae are the winner, simply because they are good at it and grow waaaaayyyy faster than corals. That "stupid" corals grows skeleton first, the algae grows muscle straight away

Would you consider 1x frozen cube for 6x fish too much import? It all gets eaten (turn off pumps/hobs when I feed)
This is daily.

My skimmer pulls a ton of gunk out. Runs slightly more wet, but I empty 1/2 a cup every other day

+1. Lack of corraline indicates high light and alk/cal/mag imo. Or , with brown funk, water issue.

Def a lack. I'm putitng together a list of all my tank status / habits at the moment, and will post in ~10 min or so. Just making sure I jot everything I can think down!

What is the nitrates. For 0.03 po4 you should balance with at least 2ppm nitrate. If you have 0 nitrate you have an imbalance which is a common mistake most do IMO

Dosed to get to 7ppm before I had a P04 checker. They were @ 0 when I used API tests & began testing.
Salifert came in when I got it up to 5ppm

I had (what I thought was at least), as issue w/ my salt. Was using reef crystals. So I reverted to Instant Oceans and did 3-4x 20-30% WC, and ended up dosing nitrates to raise them back since the WC took a lot out.
Looks like dr tims also removed some, so that was another reason to add

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Very minimal. Lights were too low, so bumped them up & started getting spots. Tiny spots here & there on rocks, and few circular spots on glass/equipment
Ever since the brown gunk, is kinda just halted


Well when you used it, did you have an algae issue you're targeting? See I feel as if I'm battling the opposite.
It's not my test result thats giving me issues, it's what I observe in the tank. If I can get rid of that brown gunk, I'd happily pull it afterwards and not use it.
Hell, even dose additional. I can careless of the # on it, but if removing it can help solve a problem - thats why I feel I would like to test it out temp @ see how the tank reacts.



Would you consider 1x frozen cube for 6x fish too much import? It all gets eaten (turn off pumps/hobs when I feed)
This is daily.

My skimmer pulls a ton of gunk out. Runs slightly more wet, but I empty 1/2 a cup every other day


Def a lack. I'm putitng together a list of all my tank status / habits at the moment, and will post in ~10 min or so. Just making sure I jot everything I can think down!



Dosed to get to 7ppm before I had a P04 checker. They were @ 0 when I used API tests & began testing.
Salifert came in when I got it up to 5ppm

I had (what I thought was at least), as issue w/ my salt. Was using reef crystals. So I reverted to Instant Oceans and did 3-4x 20-30% WC, and ended up dosing nitrates to raise them back since the WC took a lot out.
Looks like dr tims also removed some, so that was another reason to add

Wow. I just do water changes.

 

[swk]

Like I said - I think you've already made up you mind. Last post -

You started a tank 7 months ago with dead rock and it's still maturing. If it's the "brown gunk" that's bothering you - then be patient it will pass. Your tank is already po4 restricted. Restricting more isn't going to help especially if it's cyano.

If it's the sps struggling that's bothering you then shoot me a pm with all your lighting info, parameters etc but otherwise you have a 7 month old tank that is immature and started with dead rock. Be patient.

 

[tutmatt3]

For those wondering more about my specifics:
Set up & Habits

Fish list: 6x fish:
2x clowns - Sm
2x melanarus wrasse - md
2x tangs - sm

Fish in QT, transferring in 1 month:
potters angel
2x bangai cardinals (done w/ fish after this transfer)

CUC:
3x Nacarius Snails
4x large turbos
10x ceriths
2x spiny stars
100,000,000 bristle worms xD

CUC coming in tomorrow:
10x dwarf ceriths
3x nassariums
6x florida ceriths
4x nerites
(sorry, nothing that crawls after a bad experience w/ some hermits)


Feeding habits:
1x cube frozen brine
Alternating w/ 1x cube mysis the next day (only 1x cube total goes in a day)
Oyster feast 5ml 1-2x a week
seaweed sheet on the blue grazer thing (maybe 2"x4" size) 3x times a day

I eliminated pellets for the moment until I figure out my sediment issue.
All 6x fish obsess over pellets though >_>


Cleaning habits:
Empty 1/2 skimmer cup (ugly gunk) every other day
Rinse all 4x carbin cartridges weekly - once the HOB filters show water passing through the overflow
Replace carbon filters 1x a month
Magnet Scrub glass 1x daily
Turkey Baste Rocks 1-2 a weke

Parameters - all now w/ either Salifert or Hanna checkers
Temp 77 w/ .5degree variance
PH 8.2
Salt 1.026
Calcium 420
Alk 8.5
MG 1310
P04 .03-.05
Iodine .06
Potassium 400
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5-7.5 (dosed)
RODI TDS 0-2


Dosing habits:
5ml each b-ionic 2part (tank uses ~.25 dkh a day)
2ml KZ phols xtra daily
1.5ml Acropower daily

Water changes
was doing 10% weekly, but after doing so many 20-30% changes, I'm now doing 10% every 3x weeks so the water can mature again, since I essentially converted the tank to all new water w/ so many WC's

Equipment/Substrate
55g Tank
40lb dry rock reef saver (w/ a 3-4lb live rock in there)
60lb carib sea black Hawaiian sand
5lb blue gravel

2x Chinese programmable black boxes (on the light sch listed below), w/ 50% of the optics removed
1x t5 coral+ bulb
(par on SPS rock ~280)

2x HOB filters
Marine Land
Topfin

3x Wave Makers
2x eflux current usa
1x WP-25 jebao

Submersible UV

Ebay Skimmer

Tunzee ATO

Walmart fan & 200w heater hooked up to inkbird temp controller


Can't really think of what else to add, but please let me know if you have questions I can hopefully answer

 

[tutmatt3]

Wow. I just do water changes.

For a set up such as mine, what do you recommend % & frequency ?

Like I said - I think you've already made up you mind. Last post -

You started a tank 7 months ago with dead rock and it's still maturing. If it's the "brown gunk" that's bothering you - then be patient it will pass. Your tank is already po4 restricted. Restricting more isn't going to help especially if it's cyano.

If it's the sps struggling that's bothering you then shoot me a pm with all your lighting info, parameters etc but otherwise you have a 7 month old tank that is immature and started with dead rock. Be patient.

Thanks
I actually just listed them above prior to seeing this. I've been doing good patience wise believe it or not lol. Just trying to correct each problem I see one at a time.
Just as I mentioned above & like you confirmed - me such as all the other newbies see tanks doing great using it, so when we see issues w/ ours, we try to relate them to what we're not doing that they are
& I hear you on the immaturity of the tank, I completely understand that

 

[TUSI]

Depending were you like your po4 your nitrate should be kept 100 to 1 so 5 or 7 to po4 0.03 is high. That fuzzy stuff on the rocks could be from that.