Phosphates and Cycling Process

[Rob Romalino]

I just upgraded from a 125 to 250 Gallon. I have been cycling for a couple weeks. Had my Ammonia spike, Nitrite spike, Nitrate spike and now waiting for Nitrates to decrease. So here is my question... Anyone ever look at Phosphate levels during cycling?? For giggles I tested Phosphates twice today and got 0.77 and 0.69. Thoughts???? Does Phosphates go through a cycle as well and do I need to worry about them??

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

It will help you later , to try to get those numbers down now. Yes.

IMO. A lot of folks don’t look at it.
And lot of folks worry about it, but don’t physically test. Just treat.

Yes, some of the phosphate will be used during the cycle by the bacteria. But not enough to get those kind of numbers down.

 

[Jose Mayo]

During the cycling of the aquarium the presence of phosphate is important; all living things, including bacteria, use phosphate in their energy sources (it is present in ATP and ADP molecules). Without phosphate there is no life. The need to control phosphate appears later, with the tank already cycled, to avoid that its excess favors the appearance of algae or hinder the growth of the corals, before that it is an important auxiliary for the tank to mature.

Best regards

 

[lapin]

I test for PO4 before I cycle my new rock. If its high I use L/C and water changes in tubs to bring it down before cycling.

 

[Jose Mayo]

An interesting article, which helps you understand the cycling process:

Nitrifying Bacteria Facts

Highligth:
"Micronutrients
All species of nitrifying bacteria require a number of micronutrients. Most important among these is the need for phosphorus for ATP (Adenosine Tri-Phosphate) production. The conversion of ATP provides energy for cellular functions. Phosphorus is normally available to cells in the form of phosphates (PO4). Nitrobacter, especially, is unable to oxidize nitrite to nitrate in the absence of phosphates.

Sufficient phosphates are normally present in regular drinking water. During certain periods of the year, the amount of phosphates may be very low. A phenomenon known as "Phosphate Block" may occur. If all the above described parameters are within the optimum ranges for the bacteria and nitrite levels continue to escalate without production of nitrate, then phosphate block may be occurring. In recent years, with the advent of phosphate-free synthetic sea salt mixes, this problem has become prevalent among marine aquarists when establishing a new tank.

Fortunately, phosphate block is easy to remedy. A source of phosphate needs to be added to the aquarium. Phosphoric Acid is recommended as being simplest to use and dose, however, either mono-sodium phosphate or di-sodium phosphate may be substituted. When using a 31% phosphoric acid mixture, apply a one time application of 1 drop per 4 gallons of water to activate the Nitrobacter. This small dosage of phosphoric acid will not affect the pH or alkalinity of marine aquaria."

Best regards

 

[Rob Romalino]

ThanK you everyone for your replies... I understand that you need some phosphate in the system BUT what level is too high and/or should I be doing something this early in the cycling to bring them down.... obviously not to zero but down to a more normal level say ~.10?? TIA

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

You want them somewhere around here.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/

A GFO in a reactor will lower it slowly , lanthanum oxide (Po RX) will Lower it quicker with mech filtration and water changes

http://www.melevsreef.com/product/phosphate-rx

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

An interesting article, which helps you understand the cycling process:

Nitrifying Bacteria Facts

Highligth:
"Micronutrients
All species of nitrifying bacteria require a number of micronutrients. Most important among these is the need for phosphorus for ATP (Adenosine Tri-Phosphate) production. The conversion of ATP provides energy for cellular functions. Phosphorus is normally available to cells in the form of phosphates (PO4). Nitrobacter, especially, is unable to oxidize nitrite to nitrate in the absence of phosphates.

Sufficient phosphates are normally present in regular drinking water. During certain periods of the year, the amount of phosphates may be very low. A phenomenon known as "Phosphate Block" may occur. If all the above described parameters are within the optimum ranges for the bacteria and nitrite levels continue to escalate without production of nitrate, then phosphate block may be occurring. In recent years, with the advent of phosphate-free synthetic sea salt mixes, this problem has become prevalent among marine aquarists when establishing a new tank.

Fortunately, phosphate block is easy to remedy. A source of phosphate needs to be added to the aquarium. Phosphoric Acid is recommended as being simplest to use and dose, however, either mono-sodium phosphate or di-sodium phosphate may be substituted. When using a 31% phosphoric acid mixture, apply a one time application of 1 drop per 4 gallons of water to activate the Nitrobacter. This small dosage of phosphoric acid will not affect the pH or alkalinity of marine aquaria."

Best regards

That’s a cool tidbit. Thank you.