Phosphates

[Uncle99]

May to September was zero. I gave up testing. In late January/early February, I started dosing.

How can your system survive with zero nitrates over months?

You mean trace, not zero right?

My corals would starve.

 

[sw6120]

OP if your tank is a new set up and using dead rock scape you can expect a variety of algae phases over the course of the first year but 0 nitrates means your corals are slowly starving to death. .25 phosphate is slightly elevated but nothing of serious concern especially in a new unstable tank.

I see thanks. I feed heavy and have a good amount of fish so I have no doubt there’s nitrate being produced. I just think algae is eating it. Would you suggest dosing?

 

[Dburr1014]

OP if your tank is a new set up and using dead rock scape you can expect a variety of algae phases over the course of the first year but 0 nitrates means your corals are slowly starving to death. .25 phosphate is slightly elevated but nothing of serious concern especially in a new unstable tank.

I agree, somewhat.
If your feeding the fish you have nitrate.
Being a new system, are the coral getting enough? This is the question. I don't think the coral will starve in a low nitrate environment with the fish present, but I would absolutely keep an eye on them. If they are starving, dose.

As for phosphate, the rock may or may not come down from 0.25ppm. All depends on how this system runs. To be determined.
Personally, I wouldn't want to start out that high and only have to fight it later. (if it doesn't come down on its own)

 

[sw6120]

How can your system survive with zero nitrates over months?

You mean trace, not zero right?

My corals would starve.

Yes it must be trace. Corals aren’t dying but don’t look amazing. Should I dose nitrates but I’m worried if I do, the algae will just take it up

 

[sw6120]

I agree, somewhat.
If your feeding the fish you have nitrate.
Being a new system, are the coral getting enough? This is the question. I don't think the coral will starve in a low nitrate environment with the fish present, but I would absolutely keep an eye on them. If they are starving, dose.

As for phosphate, the rock may or may not come down from 0.25ppm. All depends on how this system runs. To be determined.
Personally, I wouldn't want to start out that high and only have to fight it later. (if it doesn't come down on its own)

I agree. I’m debating adding phosguard in small amount to lower it a bit ~0.1ppm range

 

[Uncle99]

Yes it must be trace. Corals aren’t dying but don’t look amazing. Should I dose nitrates but I’m worried if I do, the algae will just take it up

Yup, I’d run at least 5-10ppm, zero (in either or both nutrients) is a real bad number as it invites pest algaes.

I’d leave the phosphate where it is provided it’s not increaseing week over week.

Find out where both fall first by making no changes for a week.

Sometimes tests are at best ballpark.

 

[Dburr1014]

How can your system survive with zero nitrates over months?

You mean trace, not zero right?

My corals would starve.

Could be trace, the Hanna read 0.0ppm.

Before then I was dosing nitrate. After a seminar of coral health, I decided I was doing my coral a disservice by adding the end product(nitrate) when they really want ammonium. I stopped dosing and upped my feeding of fish and added more fish.

The Hanna read 0.0
I watched for changes, nothing came, they looked fine.

 

[sw6120]

Could be trace, the Hanna read 0.0ppm.

Before then I was dosing nitrate. After a seminar of coral health, I decided I was doing my coral a disservice by adding the end product(nitrate) when they really want ammonium. I stopped dosing and upped my feeding of fish and added more fish.

The Hanna read 0.0
I watched for changes, nothing came, they looked fine.

This is good information! I was going to say my corals seem pretty happy. Especially for the Softies. The LPS Duncan seems a bit ticked off by the higher phosphates. I think my plan might be to try and lower phosphates with phosguard and just keep feeding

 

[Dburr1014]

This is good information! I was going to say my corals seem pretty happy. Especially for the Softies. The LPS Duncan seems a bit ticked off by the higher phosphates. I think my plan might be to try and lower phosphates with phosguard and just keep feeding

That would be the easiest.
Try to break up the feedings.
I put a auto feeder on the tank so when I'm at work, they still eat.

 

[Uncle99]

Could be trace, the Hanna read 0.0ppm.

Before then I was dosing nitrate. After a seminar of coral health, I decided I was doing my coral a disservice by adding the end product(nitrate) when they really want ammonium. I stopped dosing and upped my feeding of fish and added more fish.

The Hanna read 0.0
I watched for changes, nothing came, they looked fine.

Wow.
Life with zero nitrogen.
Very interesting.
Your tank looks stunning, so that’s the proof!

 

[Dburr1014]

Wow.
Life with zero nitrogen.
Very interesting.
Your tank looks stunning, so that’s the proof!

Proof of my system.
Not for every system!
It's packed with heavy users.

 

[sw6120]

That would be the easiest.
Try to break up the feedings.
I put an auto feeder on the tank so when I'm at work, they still eat.

Thanks for the tip. I also hope that by lowering phosphate, nitrate may come back up again as algae begins to pass

 

[Dburr1014]

Thanks for the tip. I also hope that by lowering phosphate, nitrate may come back up again as algae begins to pass

I think you are thinking of it backwards.

Life needs nitrate and phosphate. Or better yet, nitrogen and phosphorus. (N and P)
By not having N, you can't use P. And visa versa. You need both.
Feeding more N will lead to dropping of P as long as you have an export.

 

[sw6120]

I think you are thinking of it backwards.

Life needs nitrate and phosphate. Or better yet, nitrogen and phosphorus. (N and P)
By not having N, you can't use P. And visa versa. You need both.
Feeding more N will lead to dropping of P as long as you have an export.

I see! I also thought this. Will dosing nitrates also just fuel the algae though? I have no doubt that nitrate is being generate by the fish and feeding, I just think the algae is stripping it.

 

[Lavey29]

I agree, somewhat.
If your feeding the fish you have nitrate.
Being a new system, are the coral getting enough? This is the question. I don't think the coral will starve in a low nitrate environment with the fish present, but I would absolutely keep an eye on them. If they are starving, dose.

As for phosphate, the rock may or may not come down from 0.25ppm. All depends on how this system runs. To be determined.
Personally, I wouldn't want to start out that high and only have to fight it later. (if it doesn't come down on its own)

Perhaps and in theory you may be right but what do we see most commonly in threads posted here with tanks and 0 nitrates? Coral decline and algae such as dinos. These problem tanks all have fish too. Of course there are exceptions and I think ULNS can work with SPS tanks and very experienced reefers who know what they are doing but not for the majority of us amateurs in the hobby. Tanks with LPS and softs just need good nutrients levels to be successful. I learned this when my tank was young and struggled. Additionally it is very difficult to manage increasing phosphate levels with 0 nitrates which I'm sure you are aware of also.

 

[Dburr1014]

I see! I also thought this. Will dosing nitrates also just fuel the algae though? I have no doubt that nitrate is being generate by the fish and feeding, I just think the algae is stripping it.

Feed the fish, pull the algae.
Is a PITA, but this is what I would do until things get stable.

 

[sw6120]

Perhaps and in theory you may be right but what do we see most commonly in threads posted here with tanks and 0 nitrates? Coral decline and algae such as dinos. These problem tanks all have fish too. Of course there are exceptions and I think ULNS can work with SPS tanks and very experienced reefers who know what they are doing but not for the majority of us amateurs in the hobby. Tanks with LPS and softs just need good nutrients levels to be successful. I learned this when my tank was young and struggled. Additionally it is very difficult to manage increasing phosphate levels with 0 nitrates which I'm sure you are aware of also.

Yea WC don’t work :/ I want to try and naturally lower it without additives but nothings working. Just don’t know how it happened but must have been something that happened when I upgraded tanks.

 

[sw6120]

Feed the fish, pull the algae.
Is a PITA, but this is what I would do until things get stable.

Thanks. In other words just ride it out

 

[Dburr1014]

Perhaps and in theory you may be right but what do we see most commonly in threads posted here with tanks and 0 nitrates? Coral decline and algae such as dinos. These problem tanks all have fish too. Of course there are exceptions and I think ULNS can work with SPS tanks and very experienced reefers who know what they are doing but not for the majority of us amateurs in the hobby. Tanks with LPS and softs just need good nutrients levels to be successful. I learned this when my tank was young and struggled. Additionally it is very difficult to manage increasing phosphate levels with 0 nitrates which I'm sure you are aware of also.

I think when I see threads of zero po4 and some no3 = problems with dinos, algae.
Not so much when the thread reads some po4 and zero no3. Those threads read more like, "will my coral die, how do I dose no3? " and not truely a problem tank.

 

[Tonycass12]

It's not just your phosphate number. It's the fact that you have new rock in the tank that's open real-estate to bad algae that causes the uglys. Every tank is different and the nutrient levels they all find a balance with are different. I advocate for everyone to not chase numbers and listen to your corals.

Just for reference I've been at .5-.8 on my phosphates for over a year since setting this tank up. Nitrates anywhere from 30-50. But I started this tank with all aged and mature rock, no spots for the nasty algae to take hold.