Phosphates!!!

[Saltgator]

Ok... I can't get my PO4 under control and need some advice. I've almost just thrown in the towel and called it quits. My love for the hobby keeps me going.

My PO4 was .10 last week and I haven't tested again (very frustrating loosing). I have been pulling 45g out each week (wc plus pulling tropic eden substrate, small amounts). My new water is Red Sea Pro via a Brs 4 stage with new filters and media (tds in are 500ish, tds out is zero). My fish have been reduced to a feeding every other day (from each day), only a pinch of mysis or enriched brine washed. My SWC 230 pulls very fine and i usually wet skim. I'm also running 1000mL of Brs bio pellets in a RO 140 (no nitrates when tested lately). I've tried putting in chemi pure elite (5 bags) and no luck (HC gfo scares the fish food out of me. Too much and boom, no corals. Too little, still problems). My zoas are semi closed, my hammer isn't a full as it once was, my sps some have PE, some stn. I believe the PO4 to be in the substrate, but I'm having the toughest time pulling out over 100lbs without causing issues. Pulling out some each time isn't even making a dent it seems. So.... Thoughts, what am I missing.

Also, if it is the substrate, and I need to pull it out faster, should I:

1: pull all livestock out, pull sand out, new h2o in, and wait for the new/mini cycle

2:keep doing the tiny ways I'm doing

3: scoop out 33% of the substrate while leaving all livestock in there and just replenish/wc the loss of water/weight

Don't hesitate to be stern, I'm probably the issue, so have at it.

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[jedidad]

I know you said you were afraid of gfo but that is probably your best bet. The PO4 may be leaching from your rocks. Just start out with small amounts of gfo and build slowly and you should be ok. Also if you are not running some macro algae in a refugium you could give that a try. Good luck.

 

[Saltgator]

I know you said you were afraid of gfo but that is probably your best bet. The PO4 may be leaching from your rocks. Just start out with small amounts of gfo and build slowly and you should be ok. Also if you are not running some macro algae in a refugium you could give that a try. Good luck.

Thanks. I forgot to add I'm running a tiny (10g) fuge.

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[Dan1789]

A 10g fuge is not going to do anything for a 240 gallon tank in terms of removing phosphates. I think GFO is a. Good idea, just start with half the recommended amount.

 

[Dan1789]

PS Go Gators!

 

[Saltgator]

I appreciate it Dan. Yes, GO GATORS!

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[Saltgator]

So, do yall think leaving the substrate and adding gfo will work? Basically, stop pulling the substrate out and go slow with gfo (I know, it rhymes)? Also, any preferred gfo??

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[jedidad]

That's what I would do. I like the Gfo that brs sells.


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[bct15]

You stirring that substrate might be part of the problem, have you tested your fresh mixed water for phosphates before it goes in the tank? I know you said 0 tds but you may want to check your RO water too, just to be sure.

I have the opposite problem, my phosphate reading in my tank the other day was 0.00 and it was causing my coral to stn and act strange. I have a 30 gallon fuge, run 1/2 cup brs regular gfo changed weekly, 1/2 cup rox carbon changed weekly, h&s skimmer and do weekly 10% water changes. I am now going to run 1/4 cup carbon and gfo changed biweekly to keep some nutrients in water.


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[reefpeeper]

what test kit are you using?

 

[Saltgator]

what test kit are you using?

Hanna

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[zemuss]

Go Canes []_[]
Ok had to get that out there

First how deep is the sand bed? From checking out the build thread looks to be over 2 inches? I would say that is problem one and a slow removal is required not to stir the pot more. I, for instance, have way too much and try to siphon out a cup or two each water change. (3 plus inches and need to reduce to 1 inch) I have a pistol shrimp that loves to arrange things and as you can imagine always is stirring my sand bed. (*******).

I would think about investing in a Algae Scrubber which should help with the export of unwanted nutrients.

"Z"

 

[screefer]

If you are scared of GFO, I would try PO4X4. I use it and it works great. Look it up online, Aquarium Specialty sells it. Its made by Reef Interests.

 

[howaboutme]

Go Canes []_[]
Ok had to get that out there

First how deep is the sand bed? From checking out the build thread looks to be over 2 inches? I would say that is problem one and a slow removal is required not to stir the pot more. I, for instance, have way too much and try to siphon out a cup or two each water change. (3 plus inches and need to reduce to 1 inch)

I agree w/ this. How long has your tank been running? If you have never cleaned your sandbed and your tank is a few years old, your sandbed might be at it's max capabilities. (If you keep it at 1 to 1.5", your sand is not deep enough to have the anoxic zone. But anymore, it may develop that zone (the DSB "benefit").) Once it reaches it's max capabilities, it will start leaching PO4 up into the water column. If you have a DSB (>3"), you should read about the pros/cons about having one and what is needed to maintain them.

 

[Saltgator]

Go Canes []_[]
Ok had to get that out there

First how deep is the sand bed? From checking out the build thread looks to be over 2 inches? I would say that is problem one and a slow removal is required not to stir the pot more. I, for instance, have way too much and try to siphon out a cup or two each water change. (3 plus inches and need to reduce to 1 inch) I have a pistol shrimp that loves to arrange things and as you can imagine always is stirring my sand bed. (*******).

I would think about investing in a Algae Scrubber which should help with the export of unwanted nutrients.

"Z"

No room in the sump for a algae scrubber. The sand is 3+ inches. I vacuum it, but evidently it ain't winning the battle, lol.

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[Saltgator]

If you are scared of GFO, I would try PO4X4. I use it and it works great. Look it up online, Aquarium Specialty sells it. Its made by Reef Interests.

Looked at it before, just never thought of trying it yet.

Country Boy using tapatalk on his EVO

 

[zemuss]

Then I would start removing the sand each water change. Run some carbon and filter floss to catch detrius that is suspended in the water column after each W/C.

Monitor your Parameters.

Remove it all is what I am suggesting. Im doing the same process just taking for ever because I have a huge snail population.

 

[Saltgator]

I agree w/ this. How long has your tank been running? If you have never cleaned your sandbed and your tank is a few years old, your sandbed might be at it's max capabilities. (If you keep it at 1 to 1.5", your sand is not deep enough to have the anoxic zone. But anymore, it may develop that zone (the DSB "benefit").) Once it reaches it's max capabilities, it will start leaching PO4 up into the water column. If you have a DSB (>3"), you should read about the pros/cons about having one and what is needed to maintain them.

System is over a year old, but most was transferred from my 125 that was up 2+ years. I've done my research on both shallow and deep beds. This being a young bed, I didn't have worries, but it is retaining PO4. I've always had a bed, but considered a BB now. My wrasses will have to get there own tiny bed in a acrylic container behind the rocks.

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[howaboutme]

System is over a year old, but most was transferred from my 125 that was up 2+ years. I've done my research on both shallow and deep beds. This being a young bed, I didn't have worries, but it is retaining PO4. I've always had a bed, but considered a BB now. My wrasses will have to get there own tiny bed in a acrylic container behind the rocks.

Country Boy using tapatalk on his EVO

If you believe the 1 year per inch theory of how long dsb can last, you're right at that point. Did you ever "maintain" your sandbed like siphon out detritus, excess food, etc? If not, I would suspect your bed is the issue and agree w/ zemuss' advice.

 

[Saltgator]

If you believe the 1 year per inch theory of how long dsb can last, you're right at that point. Did you ever "maintain" your sandbed like siphon out detritus, excess food, etc? If not, I would suspect your bed is the issue and agree w/ zemuss' advice.

Thanks. I did maintain the bed, but only the top layer. Apparently I should have done more. I'm gonna keep trying to pull sand out, but also deploy some gfo when I can.

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