Phyto
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Anthony Scholfield
Valuable Member
Phytoplankton is not for helping with nutrients. It’s for helping the micro biome of your tank. Which is the foundation of your reef.
It’s my experience and opinion that live phytoplankton will have little to no effect on your nutrient level. I have been for quite some time and still dose approx. 150ml a day to each system with a water volume of 50g.
It’s my experience and opinion that live phytoplankton will have little to no effect on your nutrient level. I have been for quite some time and still dose approx. 150ml a day to each system with a water volume of 50g.
Lyss
Valuable Member
I think it CAN, which some companies use as a selling point -- that makes some ppl think it WILL. I dose a very small amount and target feed it to my feather dusters (which is basically broadcasting it near enough to them that they get it but far enough away that they don't go into their tubes), and do see a slight reduction in nitrate. Since I've always struggled w/higher nitrates and low to undetectable phosphate I like that it keeps my phosphate up to an acceptable level. So I wouldn't expect it to decrease phosphate at all. It may help w/a small reduction in nitrate tho. It may also throw your system and nutrients out of whack if you don't use it well. It's a shame some companies tout it as a nutrient-reducing miracle cure-all, but that's marketing.
I can’t say I’ve seen a noticeable effect on nutrients. My primary reason for live phyto was something to try to out compete nuisance algae’s. Can’t say that’s happened but I’ve noticed minimal Cyano since dosing. (But could be other things like conchs getting into gear, pistol shrimp, etc)
Anthony Scholfield
Valuable Member
Yes, 150ml for my total water volume of about 50g. Been doing this for approx. 6 months. I don’t notice much effect on PO4 or NO3.
I do culture my own though. Nanno and tetra so I know what I’m putting in my tank and how much fertilizer I’m using to culture the phyto.
I notice the system looks healthy and I do have to clean the glass a bit more often.
Taken today no filter.
This is my understanding of it. Phytoplankton is an algae and uses light and nutrients to grow.
Cyanobacteria is a bacteria that also uses light and nutrients to grow.
Dinos are a single cell organism that use light and nutrients to grow.
Many other things in our systems use light and nutrients to grow and so they are always competing for space. So if cyano, Dino’s, ect are present it means they are dominating that space.
So it’s less about phytoplankton helping with nutrients and more about filling that space with something desirable. Phyto doesn’t eat cyano, at least that I’m aware of. So constant regular use of phytoplankton can help compete for that space causing the others to recede.
It isn’t a miracle cure though. It’s just one tool that can be used. One would still likely have to put in work, such as regular manual removal of the undesirables depending how bad they are.
This is why I say it’s about feeding your micro biome which is the foundation of your system. A healthy micro biome will lead to a healthy system.
Hope this is helpful
fryman
Active Member
That has not been my experience. I have dosed large amounts of live phyto (5 gallons in 100 gal tank) and it did not have a very significant impact on measureable nitrate & phosphate.
I don't think live phyto lasts long enough in a typical reef to consume significant nutrients. I guess it gets eaten too quickly. If you grow your own phyto and over-fertilize, you could significantly raise nutrients due to dumping excess fertilizer in with your phyto. But otherwise ime the (live) phyto itself has relatively little impact on measureable nutrient levels,
That doesn't mean it does nothing...regular feedings with phyto will impact your livestock for sure.
las
Well-Known Member
Anthony you have a beautiful tank.I love the aquascape. thank you for explaining that phyto/dino/cyano relationship. So, im not sure howb much i should dose now. you are literally dosing 7 times the amount of phyto (ocean magic in my case) that im dosingYes, 150ml for my total water volume of about 50g. Been doing this for approx. 6 months. I don’t notice much effect on PO4 or NO3.
I do culture my own though. Nanno and tetra so I know what I’m putting in my tank and how much fertilizer I’m using to culture the phyto.
I notice the system looks healthy and I do have to clean the glass a bit more often.
Taken today no filter.
This is my understanding of it. Phytoplankton is an algae and uses light and nutrients to grow.
Cyanobacteria is a bacteria that also uses light and nutrients to grow.
Dinos are a single cell organism that use light and nutrients to grow.
Many other things in our systems use light and nutrients to grow and so they are always competing for space. So if cyano, Dino’s, ect are present it means they are dominating that space.
So it’s less about phytoplankton helping with nutrients and more about filling that space with something desirable. Phyto doesn’t eat cyano, at least that I’m aware of. So constant regular use of phytoplankton can help compete for that space causing the others to recede.
It isn’t a miracle cure though. It’s just one tool that can be used. One would still likely have to put in work, such as regular manual removal of the undesirables depending how bad they are.
This is why I say it’s about feeding your micro biome which is the foundation of your system. A healthy micro biome will lead to a healthy system.
Hope this is helpful
Anthony Scholfield
Valuable Member
Hey @fryman on a side note….have you experienced a crash from the phyto getting too dense?
My last two nanno batches have both crashed around the 4 day mark. They have both looked great up until that point and overnight of the 4th day they have turned yellowish. I haven’t done anything different that I’m aware of.
My stored cultures could be bad too I guess. They are only about 2-3wks old. The tetra has been fine though.
I’m doing a full sterilization (soaking in bleach water) on the nanno setup hoping that kills anything that may be causing it. I usually just rinse, dry and use 70% rubbing alcohol on everything without problem.
My last two nanno batches have both crashed around the 4 day mark. They have both looked great up until that point and overnight of the 4th day they have turned yellowish. I haven’t done anything different that I’m aware of.
My stored cultures could be bad too I guess. They are only about 2-3wks old. The tetra has been fine though.
I’m doing a full sterilization (soaking in bleach water) on the nanno setup hoping that kills anything that may be causing it. I usually just rinse, dry and use 70% rubbing alcohol on everything without problem.
Anthony Scholfield
Valuable Member
Thank you and you are very welcome
afrokobe
Valuable Member
I also dose very heavily. Around 30 ml for somewhere between 20-25g of total water volume, seems to be closer to the ratio you use than the rest of the people commenting. My tank looks great, so I haven't stopped.Yes, 150ml for my total water volume of about 50g. Been doing this for approx. 6 months. I don’t notice much effect on PO4 or NO3.
I do culture my own though. Nanno and tetra so I know what I’m putting in my tank and how much fertilizer I’m using to culture the phyto.
I notice the system looks healthy and I do have to clean the glass a bit more often.
Taken today no filter.
This is my understanding of it. Phytoplankton is an algae and uses light and nutrients to grow.
Cyanobacteria is a bacteria that also uses light and nutrients to grow.
Dinos are a single cell organism that use light and nutrients to grow.
Many other things in our systems use light and nutrients to grow and so they are always competing for space. So if cyano, Dino’s, ect are present it means they are dominating that space.
So it’s less about phytoplankton helping with nutrients and more about filling that space with something desirable. Phyto doesn’t eat cyano, at least that I’m aware of. So constant regular use of phytoplankton can help compete for that space causing the others to recede.
It isn’t a miracle cure though. It’s just one tool that can be used. One would still likely have to put in work, such as regular manual removal of the undesirables depending how bad they are.
This is why I say it’s about feeding your micro biome which is the foundation of your system. A healthy micro biome will lead to a healthy system.
Hope this is helpful
Anthony Scholfield
Valuable Member
Nice! My ratio is about 3ml per gallon.
fryman
Active Member
Not sure I'd say density itself as a cause but I have seen phyto crash because it ran out of fert, which I suppose could happen faster with a denser culture. I have also seen phyto crash from contamination, equipment failure, too little/too much light, after someone looked at it funny, and for no reason whatsoever. So it's hard to say if density is a factor. Assuming you split in half and used normal amount of f2 even a very dense culture should be ok for at least 4-5 days.
Starting nanno from refridgerated backup can be tricky. Nanno does funny things for me until the culture gets established. I have had to buy new starters before, so unfortunately that may be your best bet. I recommend florida aqua farms. Best of luck.
Anthony Scholfield
Valuable Member
Lol
thank you! Yeah I have had a few crashes and usually have a decent idea why but these last too have perplexed me a bit. Thanks for being candid, cause I agree with you that sometimes it can be tricky and looking at it the wrong way could be the issue. I’ll try smiling more when I’m around it! Haha
MBruun
Active Member
I've been dosing live phyto (tetra) for the last 8 - 9 months, and I'm super happy about it. Everything just thrive
# 680 liter total water volume, dosing 6 x 90 ml pr. day using a standard auto doser.
I culture my own phyto using a modified F2 fertilizer having less CU in it.
I use phyto as my only nutrient export and having nice low NO3 and PO4 parameter values - NO3 around 20 and PO4 around 0.04. I do heavily skimming to support the removal of phyto.
Before I start dosing phyto my system was overgrown by all kinds of nuisance algaes - all gone now (allmost).
I have a sps dominated system and do feed my fish heavily with frozen food, and feed the corals (and whatever) live rotifiers, from my continuous culture (autodose 24 x 30 ml pr. day, overflow to the return chamber).
Auto dosing is possible (I change the tubes like every 2 months).
Phyto as nutrient export is also possible, but requires heavily skimming on my system.
I started out slowly finding the amout of phyto to balance my system, and I expect small adjustments from time to time.
When I get more room at home - when the kids move - I'll grow different kind of phyto, but it will have to wait a few years
# 680 liter total water volume, dosing 6 x 90 ml pr. day using a standard auto doser.
I culture my own phyto using a modified F2 fertilizer having less CU in it.
I use phyto as my only nutrient export and having nice low NO3 and PO4 parameter values - NO3 around 20 and PO4 around 0.04. I do heavily skimming to support the removal of phyto.
Before I start dosing phyto my system was overgrown by all kinds of nuisance algaes - all gone now (allmost).
I have a sps dominated system and do feed my fish heavily with frozen food, and feed the corals (and whatever) live rotifiers, from my continuous culture (autodose 24 x 30 ml pr. day, overflow to the return chamber).
Auto dosing is possible (I change the tubes like every 2 months).
Phyto as nutrient export is also possible, but requires heavily skimming on my system.
I started out slowly finding the amout of phyto to balance my system, and I expect small adjustments from time to time.
When I get more room at home - when the kids move - I'll grow different kind of phyto, but it will have to wait a few years
sixty_reefer
5000 Club Member
You are 100% right, the experience I’ve just made is a good support for this, dead phytoplankton will be just as good as live, the aim is to feed the micro organisms in the tank to outcompete others, indirectly. This eliminated photosynthetic dinoflagellates in under 5 days.Yes, 150ml for my total water volume of about 50g. Been doing this for approx. 6 months. I don’t notice much effect on PO4 or NO3.
I do culture my own though. Nanno and tetra so I know what I’m putting in my tank and how much fertilizer I’m using to culture the phyto.
I notice the system looks healthy and I do have to clean the glass a bit more often.
Taken today no filter.
This is my understanding of it. Phytoplankton is an algae and uses light and nutrients to grow.
Cyanobacteria is a bacteria that also uses light and nutrients to grow.
Dinos are a single cell organism that use light and nutrients to grow.
Many other things in our systems use light and nutrients to grow and so they are always competing for space. So if cyano, Dino’s, ect are present it means they are dominating that space.
So it’s less about phytoplankton helping with nutrients and more about filling that space with something desirable. Phyto doesn’t eat cyano, at least that I’m aware of. So constant regular use of phytoplankton can help compete for that space causing the others to recede.
It isn’t a miracle cure though. It’s just one tool that can be used. One would still likely have to put in work, such as regular manual removal of the undesirables depending how bad they are.
This is why I say it’s about feeding your micro biome which is the foundation of your system. A healthy micro biome will lead to a healthy system.
Hope this is helpful
more info below
The Green Carbon Dosing Metalology (phytoplankton)
This thread is aimed at discussing the potential of using Phytoplankton as a carbon dosing method and possibly fixing microbiology in a salt water tank during the process. The concept that led me to think that phytoplankton can be beneficial to a reef comes from nature, this is a process that...
www.reef2reef.com
MBruun
Active Member
I like your ideas about decomposing phyto supporting the microfauna in the reef tank as a source of carbon, amino acids etc.
I would expect the phyto to have a variety of beneficial functions both as live phyto uptake/consume nutrients, dead or alive as food source for (some) corals, copepods and other, and as food source for bacteria when decomposing.
I would expect the phyto to have a variety of beneficial functions both as live phyto uptake/consume nutrients, dead or alive as food source for (some) corals, copepods and other, and as food source for bacteria when decomposing.
