Planning the dream tank AND wanting to do it "all wrong"

BackToTheReef · Aug 8, 2020

As I dip my toes back into the ocean I'm probably trying to go to the bottom of the Mariana Trench rather than go for a nice swim in the bay. But hey, why go small?

Any thoughts y'all have on what is running through my head so far would be much appreciated. This tank could end up costing more than the house it is going to go in so I'd like to limit purchasing/planning mistakes! (Paralysis by analysis)

Tank goal - I like the idea of tall tanks and creating layers and different zones so I'd like this to be a mixed reef with layers of SPS and LPS while also having a healthy fish population. There are going to be challenges from the get go and some unconventional decisions but I am hoping by knowing those up front I can plan for them and make it work. After all this is my tank (and probably all of my retirement money) so I should enjoy it right?

Tank Dimensions - 96"x36"x36" (Tsunami acrylic, most likely), 460g display volume
Overflows - Fiji Cube LoPro (not sure on number or size. The tank schematics have what looks like slots for overflow maintenance in the bracing but they are only 12" wide each so if I stick with that dimension I would have three 12" overflows at 1200gph each) - I really don't want the awful "stock" overflows from the manufacturer in the tank.

Sump - ???
Refuge - ???

Controller - Apex (eventually)

Lighting - LEDs mixed with T5s most likely running ATI Blue Plus(?) bulbs.
T5s - 6 x 48" dimmable retrofit fixtures (2 bulbs per fixture) arranged in three rows
LEDs - 8 to 10 x Kessil A360x w/ narrow reflectors arranged in two rows
Alternate T5s - LED - T5s - LED - T5s from front to back (position tuned via par meter)

Mechanicals -
-I like the idea of redundancy and controllability so for the returns there will be a couple DC pumps (Reef Octopus or Red Dragon).
-I am also thinking of running two "smaller" recirculating skimmers instead of just one large one. The combined rating slightly over system volume to make up for the heavy stocking and heavy feeding. Again, cotrollable so I can tune up/down to meet bioload needs (also exploring the possibility of an algae scrubber set up to supplement but these are all new to me and could be an add on down the road once the tank is up and running)
-Powerheads and cords in the tank drive me crazy so I'd like to get the bulk of my flow from closed loops which will be DC for controllability again. Supplemented by either the MH40/60s or Gyre if desperately needed.
-I'd like to create some closed loops that go through the aquascaping to help limit deadspots and detritus build up since I will most likely feed heavy. As well as one for the back of the tank to limit dead spots there as well.
-I'd like to have two main closed loop systems that create a rolling effect from side to side as one pump ramps up and one pump ramps down as the lions share of overall flow but not sure if this is possible.
**Fully willing to admit the plumbing and planning of this type of closed loops system(s) is beyond my current scope.
-Would like to be able to intermittently run carbon or UV on the main system

Haven't fully made my mind up about things like Calcium Reactor, ATO, RO, Kalk, etc. I need to learn some more before trying to "guess" at them.

Aquascaping -
I'm not sure exactly what I want but I know I want interesting shapes, hidden places, caves, etc. to help minimize issues with fish/critters getting along.
-I want to avoid the rock wall.
-Several prominent focal points with names like eel point and anemone island

-Created using a mix of dry rock, cultured live rock, and potentially real live rock (I know it can bring the bad but it also brings lots of good) but I also want to be sustainable
-DSB (yep I said it a DSB) with a mix of dry and live (oolitic...I know, I know, it's going to blow around)

Stocking -
I haven't fully made up my mind but I like movement, I like color, and I like variety in shape, size, etc. So I'll probably pick a few things I shouldn't and will cuss myself for it later. I do want to do everything I can to use Captive Born/Aquacultured specimens when I can to increase the tanks sustainability.

Some definite options:
-Eel (zebra most likely, maybe a snowflake too just for good measure. The dwarves are just too expensive...did you see my lighting choices

)
-Banggai Cardinals
-Clowns w/ anemone(s) - cinnamon clown? personal reasons
-Pyramid Butterfly(s)
-Dotties (Orchid, Splendid...)
-Wrasses (Yellow Coris for sure, six line maybe)
-Purple Tang

Definite Maybe:
-Clam(s)
-Yellow Tang(s)

Some Maybes:
-Dwarf angel(s) - flame, coral beauty - ORA, Potter, Pygmy?
-Blue Jaw or Red Tail Trigger
-Kole Tang

Yeah, I know I'm a mess but since it is going to take me a while to get all the parts and pieces then buy the tank I'll have some time to figure the fish and critters out. Heck, by the time I buy all the hardware they will have probably stopped making the tank!!!

(Sorry this is so long and if it was clear as mud)

Arlen nemeth · Aug 8, 2020

BackToTheReef said:
As I dip my toes back into the ocean I'm probably trying to go to the bottom of the Mariana Trench rather than go for a nice swim in the bay. But hey, why go small?

Any thoughts y'all have on what is running through my head so far would be much appreciated. This tank could end up costing more than the house it is going to go in so I'd like to limit purchasing/planning mistakes! (Paralysis by analysis)

Tank goal - I like the idea of tall tanks and creating layers and different zones so I'd like this to be a mixed reef with layers of SPS and LPS while also having a healthy fish population. There are going to be challenges from the get go and some unconventional decisions but I am hoping by knowing those up front I can plan for them and make it work. After all this is my tank (and probably all of my retirement money) so I should enjoy it right?

Tank Dimensions - 96"x36"x36" (Tsunami acrylic, most likely), 460g display volume
Overflows - Fiji Cube LoPro (not sure on number or size. The tank schematics have what looks like slots for overflow maintenance in the bracing but they are only 12" wide each so if I stick with that dimension I would have three 12" overflows at 1200gph each) - I really don't want the awful "stock" overflows from the manufacturer in the tank.

Sump - ???
Refuge - ???

Controller - Apex (eventually)

Lighting - LEDs mixed with T5s most likely running ATI Blue Plus(?) bulbs.
T5s - 6 x 48" dimmable retrofit fixtures (2 bulbs per fixture) arranged in three rows
LEDs - 8 to 10 x Kessil A360x w/ narrow reflectors arranged in two rows
Alternate T5s - LED - T5s - LED - T5s from front to back (position tuned via par meter)

Mechanicals -
-I like the idea of redundancy and controllability so for the returns there will be a couple DC pumps (Reef Octopus or Red Dragon).
-I am also thinking of running two "smaller" recirculating skimmers instead of just one large one. The combined rating slightly over system volume to make up for the heavy stocking and heavy feeding. Again, cotrollable so I can tune up/down to meet bioload needs (also exploring the possibility of an algae scrubber set up to supplement but these are all new to me and could be an add on down the road once the tank is up and running)
-Powerheads and cords in the tank drive me crazy so I'd like to get the bulk of my flow from closed loops which will be DC for controllability again. Supplemented by either the MH40/60s or Gyre if desperately needed.
-I'd like to create some closed loops that go through the aquascaping to help limit deadspots and detritus build up since I will most likely feed heavy. As well as one for the back of the tank to limit dead spots there as well.
-I'd like to have two main closed loop systems that create a rolling effect from side to side as one pump ramps up and one pump ramps down as the lions share of overall flow but not sure if this is possible.
**Fully willing to admit the plumbing and planning of this type of closed loops system(s) is beyond my current scope.
-Would like to be able to intermittently run carbon or UV on the main system

Haven't fully made my mind up about things like Calcium Reactor, ATO, RO, Kalk, etc. I need to learn some more before trying to "guess" at them.

Aquascaping -
I'm not sure exactly what I want but I know I want interesting shapes, hidden places, caves, etc. to help minimize issues with fish/critters getting along.
-I want to avoid the rock wall.
-Several prominent focal points with names like eel point and anemone island
-Created using a mix of dry rock, cultured live rock, and potentially real live rock (I know it can bring the bad but it also brings lots of good) but I also want to be sustainable
-DSB (yep I said it a DSB) with a mix of dry and live (oolitic...I know, I know, it's going to blow around)

Stocking -
I haven't fully made up my mind but I like movement, I like color, and I like variety in shape, size, etc. So I'll probably pick a few things I shouldn't and will cuss myself for it later. I do want to do everything I can to use Captive Born/Aquacultured specimens when I can to increase the tanks sustainability.

Some definite options:
-Eel (zebra most likely, maybe a snowflake too just for good measure. The dwarves are just too expensive...did you see my lighting choices )
-Banggai Cardinals
-Clowns w/ anemone(s) - cinnamon clown? personal reasons
-Pyramid Butterfly(s)
-Dotties (Orchid, Splendid...)
-Wrasses (Yellow Coris for sure, six line maybe)
-Purple Tang

Definite Maybe:
-Clam(s)
-Yellow Tang(s)

Some Maybes:
-Dwarf angel(s) - flame, coral beauty - ORA, Potter, Pygmy?
-Blue Jaw or Red Tail Trigger
-Kole Tang

Yeah, I know I'm a mess but since it is going to take me a while to get all the parts and pieces then buy the tank I'll have some time to figure the fish and critters out. Heck, by the time I buy all the hardware they will have probably stopped making the tank!!!

(Sorry this is so long and if it was clear as mud)

A leopard or a clown wrasse would be a nice center peice fish that gets decently big

ichthyogeek · Aug 9, 2020

My thoughts:

If you're thinking about getting an algal turf scrubber and/or refugium, I'd recommend just lumping it all into one refugium with macros. You could Triton method the tank thereafter. And join the green side;Vamp.

Keep in mind that "eel point" and "anemone island" may become misnomers. Fish and nems like to move if conditions aren't to their liking, and for all you know, it may become "anemoneel island" at some point, instead of two distinct features.

You can cut out a lot of the "nasties" by quarantining everything "alive" in the tank. For example, you can get rid of parasites coming in with live rock by leaving the tank fishless for 11 weeks (76 days really), and algae by blackout. And quarantine all the fish!

Rjukan · Aug 9, 2020

A 36" deep tank is a challenge in and of itself. Thats beyond arm depth so you're talking tongs, or a diving mask to get to the lower foot of the tank.

What size tanks have you had in the past?

BackToTheReef · Aug 9, 2020

Rjukan said:
A 36" deep tank is a challenge in and of itself. Thats beyond arm depth so you're talking tongs, or a diving mask to get to the lower foot of the tank.

What size tanks have you had in the past?

Not that big, 90 is the biggest so far. The DSB will shorten it up some but agreed it is waaay past my arms length. Tongs, and long forceps will be mandatory. I've used them for deep plant tanks in the past and was thinking they could work in this application as well.

It is a big jump from what I have had but I am in a spot where I don't really want to do another "tweener" tank and I am prepared to take my time (easy to say in the planning stages right?) so crossing fingers and hoping it works. Definite learning curve though.

More worried about getting the flow right and eliminating dead spots or eddys as much as possible.

ichthyogeek said:
My thoughts:

If you're thinking about getting an algal turf scrubber and/or refugium, I'd recommend just lumping it all into one refugium with macros. You could Triton method the tank thereafter. And join the green side;Vamp.

Keep in mind that "eel point" and "anemone island" may become misnomers. Fish and nems like to move if conditions aren't to their liking, and for all you know, it may become "anemoneel island" at some point, instead of two distinct features.

You can cut out a lot of the "nasties" by quarantining everything "alive" in the tank. For example, you can get rid of parasites coming in with live rock by leaving the tank fishless for 11 weeks (76 days really), and algae by blackout. And quarantine all the fish!

I know, especially the anemones. They like to wander until they find a comfy spot. So far I have had pretty decent luck setting up spots for eels to make their "main" spot but know they will wander as well. Definitely going to aquascape with that in mind and make sure the rock is mostly secured (acrylic rods and super glue or epoxy as needed for the main structure).

I've heard of the Triton method but haven't looked at what it involves.

My QT plan was to set up a group of 20Ls and 40Bs to use as quarantine for everything, including the real live rock. Run UVs on tanks with everything but the live rock. It'll take longer but I'm not in a hurry, I am taking risks with some choices so I want to try and make it work the best I can.

scott11106 · Aug 9, 2020

BackToTheReef said:
As I dip my toes back into the ocean I'm probably trying to go to the bottom of the Mariana Trench rather than go for a nice swim in the bay. But hey, why go small?

Any thoughts y'all have on what is running through my head so far would be much appreciated. This tank could end up costing more than the house it is going to go in so I'd like to limit purchasing/planning mistakes! (Paralysis by analysis)

Tank goal - I like the idea of tall tanks and creating layers and different zones so I'd like this to be a mixed reef with layers of SPS and LPS while also having a healthy fish population. There are going to be challenges from the get go and some unconventional decisions but I am hoping by knowing those up front I can plan for them and make it work. After all this is my tank (and probably all of my retirement money) so I should enjoy it right?

Tank Dimensions - 96"x36"x36" (Tsunami acrylic, most likely), 460g display volume
Overflows - Fiji Cube LoPro (not sure on number or size. The tank schematics have what looks like slots for overflow maintenance in the bracing but they are only 12" wide each so if I stick with that dimension I would have three 12" overflows at 1200gph each) - I really don't want the awful "stock" overflows from the manufacturer in the tank.

Sump - ???
Refuge - ???

Controller - Apex (eventually)

Lighting - LEDs mixed with T5s most likely running ATI Blue Plus(?) bulbs.
T5s - 6 x 48" dimmable retrofit fixtures (2 bulbs per fixture) arranged in three rows
LEDs - 8 to 10 x Kessil A360x w/ narrow reflectors arranged in two rows
Alternate T5s - LED - T5s - LED - T5s from front to back (position tuned via par meter)

Mechanicals -
-I like the idea of redundancy and controllability so for the returns there will be a couple DC pumps (Reef Octopus or Red Dragon).
-I am also thinking of running two "smaller" recirculating skimmers instead of just one large one. The combined rating slightly over system volume to make up for the heavy stocking and heavy feeding. Again, cotrollable so I can tune up/down to meet bioload needs (also exploring the possibility of an algae scrubber set up to supplement but these are all new to me and could be an add on down the road once the tank is up and running)
-Powerheads and cords in the tank drive me crazy so I'd like to get the bulk of my flow from closed loops which will be DC for controllability again. Supplemented by either the MH40/60s or Gyre if desperately needed.
-I'd like to create some closed loops that go through the aquascaping to help limit deadspots and detritus build up since I will most likely feed heavy. As well as one for the back of the tank to limit dead spots there as well.
-I'd like to have two main closed loop systems that create a rolling effect from side to side as one pump ramps up and one pump ramps down as the lions share of overall flow but not sure if this is possible.
**Fully willing to admit the plumbing and planning of this type of closed loops system(s) is beyond my current scope.
-Would like to be able to intermittently run carbon or UV on the main system

Haven't fully made my mind up about things like Calcium Reactor, ATO, RO, Kalk, etc. I need to learn some more before trying to "guess" at them.

Aquascaping -
I'm not sure exactly what I want but I know I want interesting shapes, hidden places, caves, etc. to help minimize issues with fish/critters getting along.
-I want to avoid the rock wall.
-Several prominent focal points with names like eel point and anemone island
-Created using a mix of dry rock, cultured live rock, and potentially real live rock (I know it can bring the bad but it also brings lots of good) but I also want to be sustainable
-DSB (yep I said it a DSB) with a mix of dry and live (oolitic...I know, I know, it's going to blow around)

Stocking -
I haven't fully made up my mind but I like movement, I like color, and I like variety in shape, size, etc. So I'll probably pick a few things I shouldn't and will cuss myself for it later. I do want to do everything I can to use Captive Born/Aquacultured specimens when I can to increase the tanks sustainability.

Some definite options:
-Eel (zebra most likely, maybe a snowflake too just for good measure. The dwarves are just too expensive...did you see my lighting choices )
-Banggai Cardinals
-Clowns w/ anemone(s) - cinnamon clown? personal reasons
-Pyramid Butterfly(s)
-Dotties (Orchid, Splendid...)
-Wrasses (Yellow Coris for sure, six line maybe)
-Purple Tang

Definite Maybe:
-Clam(s)
-Yellow Tang(s)

Some Maybes:
-Dwarf angel(s) - flame, coral beauty - ORA, Potter, Pygmy?
-Blue Jaw or Red Tail Trigger
-Kole Tang

Yeah, I know I'm a mess but since it is going to take me a while to get all the parts and pieces then buy the tank I'll have some time to figure the fish and critters out. Heck, by the time I buy all the hardware they will have probably stopped making the tank!!!

(Sorry this is so long and if it was clear as mud)

check out my build thread and others as they will give you some perspectives on your questions. There are not many "wrong" things or livestock but definitely easy, hard and things that are not a good idea. take your time and set it up right, it will be worth every penny and every minute later. i run almost full automation and it makes the day to day very easy and fun.

maroun.c · Aug 9, 2020

I'd suggest spending time in the members monster tanks section, looking at other similar size tanks, equipment, lighting, scape, stocking choices, what works and what doesn't for you. This will help u build up a more informed plan and stocking list.
I go through many details in my build thread of my 400nG tank u can check it out as well.

mtfish · Aug 9, 2020

Welcome to the club. My tank is similar at 430 gallons, just a couple of inches longer and only 28 tall. One thing that I found helpful is able to get into the tank from both front and back as this helps in reaching for stuff. I did not see anywhere that you plan a fish room for equipment? In my opinion, that is almost necessary for a tank this size. Closed loops are nice for out of sight, but leaves little flexibility for future aquascaping changes as corals grow in. Good luck going forward.

BackToTheReef · Aug 9, 2020

scott11106 said:
check out my build thread and others as they will give you some perspectives on your questions. There are not many "wrong" things or livestock but definitely easy, hard and things that are not a good idea. take your time and set it up right, it will be worth every penny and every minute later. i run almost full automation and it makes the day to day very easy and fun.

Well there not being many "wrong" things is a definite change. "Back in my day" (I'm going to put tube socks and sandals on and yell at the neighborhood whipper snappers to get off my lawn) it felt like if you didn't fall into xyz camp you were wrong and there were plenty to tell you that you were! I definitely want to get to the point where I get to that point of full or almost full automation so I can spend my time enjoying the tank and inhabitants.

maroun.c said:
I'd suggest spending time in the members monster tanks section, looking at other similar size tanks, equipment, lighting, scape, stocking choices, what works and what doesn't for you. This will help u build up a more informed plan and stocking list.
I go through many details in my build thread of my 400nG tank u can check it out as well.

I'll definitely do some more lurking there, I had started poking around the last couple days to get an idea of how many people were doing what I wanted and to borrow some ideas. And I'll take a look at your build for sure!

mtfish said:
Welcome to the club. My tank is similar at 430 gallons, just a couple of inches longer and only 28 tall. One thing that I found helpful is able to get into the tank from both front and back as this helps in reaching for stuff. I did not see anywhere that you plan a fish room for equipment? In my opinion, that is almost necessary for a tank this size. Closed loops are nice for out of sight, but leaves little flexibility for future aquascaping changes as corals grow in. Good luck going forward.

Thanks! I continue going back and forth on the closed loops vs. powerhead debate. Maybe the solution will be finding a good mix of both, especially to allow for changes/growth. I do think I want to try and plumb something through the rock work to get some kind of flow since there will be lots of knooks, crannies, bends, caves, etc. (I need to figure out how to do some 3D modeling so I can start playing with my ideas on paper)

So the plan is for a fish room. Originally I had planned on building a tank into a wall so the front was flush with the wall but I don't like the idea of losing the visibility of the sides, especially the way I want to aquascape it. So I am thinking of building a bump out so that 3 sides are viewable (or some combination of wall/tank so the front and sides are visible). Some kind of access to the top from the front via doors or whatever but the space the tank is going in will determine a lot.

I don't want the sump or refuge under the tank for ease of access and frankly my joints aren't what they used to be. Exact orientation of all the gear I am not sure of yet but I do want an oversized sump to allow for double skimmers and other equipment. I'd like to build a separate refuge for macro algae but I don't want just a ball of chaeto(?) I'd like to create a little biome of it's own for pods and such so sand bed, rock, and attractive(?) macro???

I've seen a few builds on bigger tanks where there is essentially a catwalk behind the tank so you can get up higher and have better access to the tank. Also allowing for storage underneath for salt, etc. I am terrified of shelves for dosing pumps, etc. above the sump or 'fuge b/c I will definitely be knocking something into the tank. So finding space for all that and still maintaining order is a big concern.

I also would like to have tubs for salt mixing, RO storage, etc. plus space for quarantine, a sink, counter space, storage, maybe a fridge/freezer, etc.! lol I am literally looking at buying houses with attached or not attached) garages big enough to convert into a tank house. So I can use it as my office when working from home and for some relaxation/reading/studying space. (One thing I have learned from the pandemic is even if you work from home it is important to have a different space that is enjoyable to work from)

***Also I hope I haven't been "that guy" and argued against anyone's advice. I am still really open to most suggestions at this point. The only thing I am really set on are the dimensions (I'd go bigger if I thought I could afford it!). If I have been, my apologies.

**And also my apologies for being long winded. I used to talk for a living.

mtfish · Aug 9, 2020

On my tank it is also 36 wide (would be bigger also but all the room my would give me!). I have one foot back into the fish room, so have 2 ft on the sides for viewing. This semi-in-wall build has a free standing metal frame. This has worked out well for me.

BackToTheReef · Aug 9, 2020

mtfish said:
On my tank it is also 36 wide (would be bigger also but all the room my would give me!). I have one foot back into the fish room, so have 2 ft on the sides for viewing. This semi-in-wall build has a free standing metal frame. This has worked out well for me.

Never really thought of recessing it like that, would help "hide" any powerheads like MH60s or whatever. Did you black out the section behind the wall?

I have been looking at aluminum stands b/c I don't trust myself to build one well enough to support the tank.

mtfish · Aug 9, 2020

BackToTheReef said:
Never really thought of recessing it like that, would help "hide" any powerheads like MH60s or whatever. Did you black out the section behind the wall?

I have been looking at aluminum stands b/c I don't trust myself to build one well enough to support the tank.

Yes, back glass is blacked out so you cannot see into the fish room.

BackToTheReef · Aug 9, 2020

scott11106 said:
check out my build thread and others as they will give you some perspectives on your questions. There are not many "wrong" things or livestock but definitely easy, hard and things that are not a good idea. take your time and set it up right, it will be worth every penny and every minute later. i run almost full automation and it makes the day to day very easy and fun.

After going over your build and AKReef's (might have the wrong username) I have some ideas what I want the front of the tank to look like. This is going to sound like a ridiculous question but...what stone did you use on your fireplace? I like the idea of using stone below the tank and transitioning to a white "ship lap" above it like AKReef used around his.