Please advise

[Alvi]

Greetings Reef2Reef Community!

I appreciate the warm welcoming email from David and becoming part of this community. Last April I excitedly entered the hobby by purchasing an up-and-running system to avoid starting from scratch and waiting for the cycling. It is a 150-gallon DT, Red Sea Max S-650 with fish, coral invertebrates, refugium, live rock and fine white sand. I kept it in my office and found a very highly knowledgeable person to help me maintain the tank. A few months ago, he quit abruptly to pursue another career and it all went downhill from there. Currently, half of my fish died from ick outbreak and most of my corals are also now dead. The tank is also infested with the tiny pest starfish and worms that build hard tubes on my live rock. Through a LFS's advice, I set up a 32 gallon bare-bottom quarantine tank using 32 pounds of live rock from my DT for cycling, dosing the fish with Fritz Coppersafe. After the quarantining period is over, I want to get rid of this system, buy a brand new tank and keep at my home- starting all over the correct way. I've wasted a lot of time and money trying to learn and I need some advice on how to move forward on the following items :

1.) Even after using the correct dosage of Fritz Coppersafe, the copper test only indicates about 0.25. Should I keep increasing the dosage until the test results are 2.0?
2.) Even after 3 - 25% water changes every other day and one 50% on the weekend, my Seachem Amonia wheel color stays closer to the green "alert" level. API water test kit also shows closer to green than yellow. What more can I do?
3.) Some of the coral I have left are mushroom coral stuck on live rock. I don't want to rip them off so how do I quarantine them along with the live rock before moving to the new tank?
4.) How do I quarantine the invertebrates before moving to the new tank?
5.) Is there a way to quarantine and clean the remaining live rock and sand or should I just get rid of it all with the tank and equipment and buy new and cycle?

Thank you.

 

[ScottieB]

Sorry to hear about the trouble, this is supposed to be fun right? I think you have the right idea moving forward and all is not lost.

1. I don’t believe the QT should have live rock in it. The rock may be affecting your ability to get a therapeutic copper level. Just some inert biological filtration media and PVC pipes for the fish to hide in. Then yes, slowly ramp up the dose to the correct level and keep it there according to Fritzes guidelines (I’ve only ever used cupramine).

2. I’m not sure I would trust the ammonia wheel. Maybe back it up with a traditional test. Those water changes are also gonna affect your copper level and make it tough to get to therapeutic levels.

3-5. The inverts, remaining rock and mushrooms can be left fallow without any fish for 76 days (I think that’s the number). Search for Fallow period on the forum. The ich parasite needs a vertebrate host to complete its life cycle.

wish I could help more, but I think your on the right track. I’m sure some others will offer some more help and probably better advice.

 

[JumboShrimp]

I’ll just jump in on the CopperSafe, which I have used many times. A rate of 1 teaspoon per 4 gallons (per instructions) and you are only at 0.25? Something is not right. (Bad batch?) Do you have a Hanna Copper Checker? My life was miserable trying to run copper until I got one.

 

[phatduckk]

Yup. Above covers most of it. I’d like to add that you don’t need a new tank. You can bleach out the current one while everything is in QT and “start over”.

Good luck

 

[Alvi]

Sorry to hear about the trouble, this is supposed to be fun right? I think you have the right idea moving forward and all is not lost.

1. I don’t believe the QT should have live rock in it. The rock may be affecting your ability to get a therapeutic copper level. Just some inert biological filtration media and PVC pipes for the fish to hide in. Then yes, slowly ramp up the dose to the correct level and keep it there according to Fritzes guidelines (I’ve only ever used cupramine).

2. I’m not sure I would trust the ammonia wheel. Maybe back it up with a traditional test. Those water changes are also gonna affect your copper level and make it tough to get to therapeutic levels.

3-5. The inverts, remaining rock and mushrooms can be left fallow without any fish for 76 days (I think that’s the number). Search for Fallow period on the forum. The ich parasite needs a vertebrate host to complete its life cycle.

wish I could help more, but I think your on the right track. I’m sure some others will offer some more help and probably better advice.

Thank you very much for the prompt response. Yes it was supposed to be fun and relaxation but has turned out to be opposite on both. I’m trying very hard to stay in.

 

[Alvi]

I’ll just jump in on the CopperSafe, which I have used many times. A rate of 1 teaspoon per 4 gallons (per instructions) and you are only at 0.25? Something is not right. (Bad batch?) Do you have a Hanna Copper Checker? My life was miserable trying to run copper until I got one.

Thank you. No I only have the wheel and API test kit.

 

[Jon Fishman]

The tube worm things are Vermitid Snails. Invasive yes, but harmless. Just manually remove/smash those, and scrape all the stars off the glass and throw them out

 

[Alvi]

Yup. Above covers most of it. I’d like to add that you don’t need a new tank. You can bleach out the current one while everything is in QT and “start over”.

Good luck

Thank you. It is just that I had to pay $2K to movers when I bought it so instead of paying that again, I would rather get a new one come to my house and get rid of this one.

 

[Jon Fishman]

Where are you located? I’d move it to my house free of charge

 

[Alvi]

The tube worm things are Vermitid Snails. Invasive yes, but harmless. Just manually remove/smash those, and scrape all the stars off the glass and throw them out

Thank you. So do you think I can still use my live rock in the new tank?

 

[Jon Fishman]

If the snails/tubes bother you, I would thoroughly go over each one. Just take out, and chisel off every tube you find. (I actually dip back in tank because they are easier to see if you missed any while in the water and under aquarium lights!).

Once you are done with that, drop all rocks in a brute trashcan, throw a powerhead in there with a bunch of water (RODI or just whatever water you drain from the tank) and cover it and let it circulate for the days/weeks/months whatever it takes to setup your new tank. Then you will have already cycled rock waiting to start your new tank

If you are adding any new, dry rock to the new tank, throw it in with the others and it will start to cure as well.

I don’t recommend re-using sand though, and actually I would urge you to go bare-bottom on the new tank, but that’ up to you

 

[ScottB]

Welcome to R2R. Sorry it is under these trying circumstances. I agree all above, but do want to point out that the rock you have in the copper tank should not go back into a reef tank. I would dispose of it after QT.

 

[Alvi]

If the snails/tubes bother you, I would thoroughly go over each one. Just take out, and chisel off every tube you find. (I actually dip back in tank because they are easier to see if you missed any while in the water and under aquarium lights!).

Once you are done with that, drop all rocks in a brute trashcan, throw a powerhead in there with a bunch of water (RODI or just whatever water you drain from the tank) and cover it and let it circulate for the days/weeks/months whatever it takes to setup your new tank. Then you will have already cycled rock waiting to start your new tank

If you are adding any new, dry rock to the new tank, throw it in with the others and it will start to cure as well.

I don’t recommend re-using sand though, and actually I would urge you to go bare-bottom on the new tank, but that’ up to you

Thanks again Jon. How would you handle the mushroom corals attached to the live rock?

 

[Alvi]

Welcome to R2R. Sorry it is under these trying circumstances. I agree all above, but do want to point out that the rock you have in the copper tank should not go back into a reef tank. I would dispose of it after QT.

Thank you Scott. Yes I was going to discard that rock.

 

[Jon Fishman]

Thanks again Jon. How would you handle the mushroom corals attached to the live rock?

Picture? If you can remove them, great, otherwise they may become collateral casualties

 

[artieg1]

Just a few points to add here:

(1) Why in the world would your LFS have you put live rock in a QT that you plan to use with copper? That makes no sense. The live rock can never go in the DT again after that, and that much live rock will definitely absorb the copper (which is why you cannot use it again). Now, I will often add some media from the DT to a QT to seed it (I pull a small handful of matrix from my sump). But 32 pounds of rock? I would definitely redo your QT and maintain therapeutic levels for the recommended period.

(2) Ammonia alert badges are crap in my opinion. They never worked for me.

(3) Seems to me that "getting rid" of your tank at work will be as expensive as moving it to your house. Maybe all is not lost.

(4) Regarding QT of invertebrates and other issues, you should read up on the QT protocol stickies in the beginner's forum. There are many different theories on inverts and corals, and you have to select one based on how cautious you are and what you are trying to avoid.

Good luck!

 

[Jon Fishman]

For what it is worth, I put a paly covered rock in a brute with cold water and a pump, with other rocks, and after 3+ weeks I put the translucent dead looking paly-rock in a new tank, and those suckers are still alive

 

[phatduckk]

Thank you. It is just that I had to pay $2K to movers when I bought it so instead of paying that again, I would rather get a new one come to my house and get rid of this one.

fair enough...

 

[Terri Caton]

Don't get rid of your mushrooms. Even if they tear into pieces when removing them from the rock they'll be fine. Smaller pieces of mushrooms will just become new mushrooms!

 

[Alvi]

Don't get rid of your mushrooms. Even if they tear into pieces when removing them from the rock they'll be fine. Smaller pieces of mushrooms will just become new mushrooms!

Thank you Terri.
How would I put them back on a new rock?