Hey everyone, new to all of this, has my tank going for a bit now and when my ammonia spiked (1.0) the LFS tested it numerous times and when everything settled back down to zero they said it would be okay to add 2 clowns and 2 hermit crabs, however now the ammonia spiked again up to 2.0, it's down to .50 now and nitrites are at .25...I know I may have jumped the gun adding fish, but I listened to the LFS and now I'm worried, my hermits are fine, 1 clown is fine but the other lays on his side at the bottom most of the time, only getting up to swim for a short while, I want him to be okay, I dosed with prime and microbacter7....anything else I should do? I read not to do a water change while ammonia is up because if the pH raises it will make it more toxic? Please help
PLEASE HELP! Ammonia, nitrites and clownfish
- Thread starter Mallory86
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If your ammonia was 0 then your tank was cycled. Are you able to test your own water now or are you still taking it to the store? Which tests are they/you using?
as far as I know you absolutely want to be doing large water changes if fish are showing signs of ammonia burns (which yours is). That said I’ve never had that problem and I’m not an expert but I just saw that nobody had replied to you so I wanted to say something.
I would also google “treat ammonia burns in fish” and see if anything turns up. Ive seen people mention a medicine in the disease forum that will help a fish’s gills heal. Hopefully somebody else can chime in with more advice but I would definitely recommend having your own test kits so you can monitor things without relying on your store.
#reefsquad
as far as I know you absolutely want to be doing large water changes if fish are showing signs of ammonia burns (which yours is). That said I’ve never had that problem and I’m not an expert but I just saw that nobody had replied to you so I wanted to say something.
I would also google “treat ammonia burns in fish” and see if anything turns up. Ive seen people mention a medicine in the disease forum that will help a fish’s gills heal. Hopefully somebody else can chime in with more advice but I would definitely recommend having your own test kits so you can monitor things without relying on your store.
#reefsquad
Prime causes false positives now for ammonia and nitrite. Not an ammonia issue as it acts fast and kills over nite. Disease is likely issue/ skipping fallow and qt this can occur. Ammonia would harm all inhabitants over nite and make the water cloudy.
Mallory86
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The clowns have been in there for 2 weeks, the water is definitely cloudy, not horrible but still cloudy, the ammonia tested at 2.0 before the prime, and has since lowered to .50. I will check the ammonia before I add prime again to see what it is before I add that but I'm fairly positive it is true and correct, I just did a partial water change, I am going to do it little by little throughout the day as to not stress the fish anymore than they already are and hope for the best, I may also have my LFS double check the water to verify my test kit isn't off.
For sure it’s zero ammonia, clowns can’t survive two weeks in a tank that can’t control ammonia. Whatever your tests were before prime won’t factor now that it’s dosed.
Take the concern for ammonia and apply it to fish disease preps for the tank that’s the indicated plan. No fish disease preps= 70% loss of fish to various ailments going off percentages from the fish disease forum. Fallow + quarantine + treat fish before placing in tank. Ammonia is not a factor in any reef running with fish this long. You have not used seneye to test ammonia, that explains all readings prior and current and we have hundreds of searchable threads for detecting free ammonia in cycled tanks without using seneye (My cycle is stuck)- cycles cannot get stuck they always complete.
wanted to direct you to fish disease preps, considering what the disease forum shows percent - wise
Per fish disease forum, they have running threads for what you’ve described first page. We assess cycles all day long for years, your cycle isn’t the issue.
post a full tank picture.
wanted to direct you to fish disease preps, considering what the disease forum shows percent - wise
Per fish disease forum, they have running threads for what you’ve described first page. We assess cycles all day long for years, your cycle isn’t the issue.
post a full tank picture.
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A few thoughts
Prime binds ammonia for 48 hours then it releases it. It is still there, just not toxic for 48 hours.
Water changes are not a bad thing. If some thing is in the water, removing water and replacing with new will help. Solution is Dilution.
Prime binds ammonia for 48 hours then it releases it. It is still there, just not toxic for 48 hours.
Water changes are not a bad thing. If some thing is in the water, removing water and replacing with new will help. Solution is Dilution.
Mallory86
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I have tested nitrite which is .25, the tank has been running about a month and a half, I feed them twice a day, I've had to do a water change once before this as salinity was too high so had to use the rodi water to balance it out, running a charcoal filter, no skimmers this is my first saltwater fish tank, so maybe I am holding onto ammonia but that's because it's all I can see and I have no other experience, I bought a saltwater aquariums for dummies book, and am googling but thought that maybe someone here would have a little more knowledge as the search results show to add prime, bacteria, and do water change all of which I've done, the fish in question has no white spots and no reddening around gills or anywhere else, I figure if the ammonia doesn't drop more in a few hours after I did a pt wc I will call the LFS and see if I can bring the fish in for them to look at. I don't know anymore, I'm trying, I really am.
When released her cycled substrate w neutralize ammonia
it’s not possible for this tank to be unable to control ammonia. Cycled before two weeks, then two weeks with currently living fish
how did we all quit factoring the importance of disease prep here?
consider clicking on the fish disease forum to read how a totally different set of eyes would gauge your fish loss.
non seneye ammonia test, case closed.
there is no irritation level ammonia, there is only safe levels, or total loss levels, there is no mid ground for ammonia in a reef tank, seneye and mindstream have closed the book on the matter.
to summarize the importance of seneye data: not one reef tank on seneye shows non compliant ammonia. No cycles stall when we measure accurately, not one, not any outliers.
is this reef here above likely to be the first ammonia outlier ever seen
it’s not possible for this tank to be unable to control ammonia. Cycled before two weeks, then two weeks with currently living fish
how did we all quit factoring the importance of disease prep here?
consider clicking on the fish disease forum to read how a totally different set of eyes would gauge your fish loss.
non seneye ammonia test, case closed.
there is no irritation level ammonia, there is only safe levels, or total loss levels, there is no mid ground for ammonia in a reef tank, seneye and mindstream have closed the book on the matter.
to summarize the importance of seneye data: not one reef tank on seneye shows non compliant ammonia. No cycles stall when we measure accurately, not one, not any outliers.
is this reef here above likely to be the first ammonia outlier ever seen
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Mallory86
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The fish were in someone else's qt tank for 1 week, the also got a dip before being placed in my tank, now I know I said I'm brand new to this but if there is something other than that I should've done please let me know...at this point there are fish in the tank and I am trying to help the situation the best I can, also if a disease wouldn't both fish have it or am I wrong in thinking that? The 2nd clown is happy as can be and acting completely normal.
Your tank not being fallow prepped undid the qt efforts, the whole chain of prep is required.
*good job sourcing qt fish though from friend/trying what you can.
for sure strength and immunity range fish to fish they don’t all succumb at once.
this recent cycle we umpired, see his drastic ammonia readings just between two non seneye tests?
www.reef2reef.com
*good job sourcing qt fish though from friend/trying what you can.
for sure strength and immunity range fish to fish they don’t all succumb at once.
this recent cycle we umpired, see his drastic ammonia readings just between two non seneye tests?
Where am I in the cycle?
your done? but i dont undestand why your nitrate are low did you water change No, no water change at that point. May have been mis-read/mis-tested at that point, but now I'm reading between 25-50ppm nitrate
www.reef2reef.com
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**we start nanos all day long with fallow skipped clownfish, taking risks bc they’re pretty tough.
if you had a weak fish that can explain loss. Others are the typically tough ones, but ammonia control issues kill your whole reef, fast, thats why ammonia is easy to rule out here. If you had simply a weak clownfish that died, your other may still be strong and disease free, their inherent strength evident compared to the other fellow.
youll have to choose between fallow preps or non fallow preps to guide using fish in reefs. It’s an enduring choice for everyone
me personally - a couple clowns are tough likely going to be ok. But if you want mixed fish, must fallow prep.
if you had a weak fish that can explain loss. Others are the typically tough ones, but ammonia control issues kill your whole reef, fast, thats why ammonia is easy to rule out here. If you had simply a weak clownfish that died, your other may still be strong and disease free, their inherent strength evident compared to the other fellow.
youll have to choose between fallow preps or non fallow preps to guide using fish in reefs. It’s an enduring choice for everyone
me personally - a couple clowns are tough likely going to be ok. But if you want mixed fish, must fallow prep.
IKD
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Welcome to R2R first of all! Just my two cents. A one week QT is better than none, but two weeks is better to watch for behavior/disease signs.
you mentioned salinity. How big is your tank? Are you adding RODI regularly to account for evaporation? Keep an eye on the salinity
also, how is the water getting oxygenated (skimmer, overflow,bubbler, etc)?
you mentioned salinity. How big is your tank? Are you adding RODI regularly to account for evaporation? Keep an eye on the salinity
also, how is the water getting oxygenated (skimmer, overflow,bubbler, etc)?
Mallory86
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First of all I haven't lost any fish, secondly I believe I mentioned am I researching everything it could be and will be checking with my LFS as well, thirdly unless you have a time machine for me to go back and FALLOW then either suggest something else or nothing at all....I have seen many posts here and it seems some people all though they may mean well tend to want to bully and talk down to people based on whatever method they chose, maybe I didn't know about fallowing, maybe I still used a method that was used for a very long time before people started to fallow, thank you for your advice on that matter, maybe for my next tank when I get it I will look into that but for the tank at hand it's too late and continuing to say what I "should have" done is really a mute point.
Mallory86
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Thank you, and I will be sure to QT longer for the next time, my tank is 55 gallons, ammonia-.50, nitrite-.25, nitrate was 0 when LFS checked about 5 days ago, pH-8.0, salinity 1.025, phosphate-.25, akalinity-8, calcium-440, and temp is 78°
Also yes to rodi and I have been checking every 2-3 days but yesterday was my first test in 3 days due to a hospital visit for a family member.
you can still fallow your tank if you choose it’s not too late. bullying vs. being redirected away from ammonia issues despite several rebuttals, most stuck cycle threads have that testing crossroads.
*pls see that ammonia test comparison thread above* thats one water sample, salifert vs api starkly different readings
If it’s any consolation, non seneye ammonia testing makes many people confused on what to believe.
by aiming concern away from ammonia, and into reading up on disease preps, your future fish keeping has a strong chance. you can be confident your cycle is 100% able to carry fish for the life of the tank.
details here:
www.reef2reef.com
*pls see that ammonia test comparison thread above* thats one water sample, salifert vs api starkly different readings
If it’s any consolation, non seneye ammonia testing makes many people confused on what to believe.
by aiming concern away from ammonia, and into reading up on disease preps, your future fish keeping has a strong chance. you can be confident your cycle is 100% able to carry fish for the life of the tank.
details here:
Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis
A forum for discussing treatment and diagnosing saltwater reef fish.
www.reef2reef.com
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IKD
2500 Club Member
Except for that ammonia reading, the numbers look good. Two other questions
1. How about oxygenation? Do you have a skimmer running or some other method for air exchange?
2. You mentioned cloudy water. This could be a bacterial bloom (happens in cycling tanks too). I would suggest adding carbon, doing a water change (20%), and ensuring oxygen exchange.
Unfortunately in my experience when a fish is lying on it's side it's very difficult to recover (but that's just me).
