Please HELP! Clowns are dying.....

[Afakasi831]

make sure your water testing kits aren't expired some will after a year or so. I'd do a big WC ASAP.

 

[Afakasi831]

Also run carbon. What are the clowns doing?

 

[bmay]

If you are containing the salt creep it is not hurting. My whole reef is air stone driven exclusively. I know big wc aren't ideal for fish, won't hurt bacteria or corals certainly, but it seems we need tank CPR which consists of total export of X variable. Even if X suspect wasn't the case, we do successful large water changes with fish in tow lots of times

Having the water aged a bit before swap helps, and the re-pour is critical. Must not stir up sandbed, although it's looking clean so far. I was specifically looking at your live rock details for non clogging, the corners of the tank and the sandbed, you provided what looks to be a cleaner than normal tank. Do you have any ammonia test outcomes we could see

That tank looks all of two years, excellent growth and ion consistency going solely off coralline.

Just tested for ammonia again...see picture

Do you think this is what got to the Clowns?

 

[bmay]

Also run carbon. What are the clowns doing?

One is completely on it side (short breaths) and the other right now actually just looks like its sleeping.

 

[brandon429]

That's too low to be able to discern, the classic API issue.

Could be .25 could be zero, people endlessly debate it. It certainly isn't 4 which would be something to react to

I'd still have to vote a big change or two half changes back to back. It's simply what I'd do not knowing other variables. The ammonia can only come about if large waste stores are disturbed, namely the sandbed, and it doesn't seem you have done that. Ammonia burning for fish typically sends them to the top where o2 concentrates better, as gill efficiency is reduced. Laying on bottom isn't typical ammonia reaction.

 

[melypr1985]

Just tested for ammonia again...see picture

Do you think this is what got to the Clowns?

I believe so. Water changes are needed and quickly. any amount of ammonia is toxic to fish. You may want to drop some Prime in there to detoxify the ammonia quickly then continue doing water changes until it levels out.

 

[Afakasi831]

Just tested for ammonia again...see picture

Do you think this is what got to the Clowns?

this could very well be your problem. Do a big WC soon. How often are you feeding? Do you have a clean up crew? (snails, crabs, ect.). Do you use anytype of filter?

 

[brandon429]

See what .25 causes



Nobody agrees, ever lol, seen it since 2001 it's a funny thing about reef testing. Google this
API gives false ammonia reading

you'll see things from nine month claimed stalled cycles to people ripping their entire tank apart looking for a source.

Ammonia will not generate from anything other than a massive waste store you kicked up, did ya? If you moving rocks kicked up wastes stored up under, then I could believe it. A waste pile equals ammonia, we should be able to find the source clearly if applicable.

 

[Afakasi831]

See what .25 causes



Nobody agrees, ever lol, seen it since 2001 it's a funny thing about reef testing. Google this
API gives false ammonia reading

you'll see things from nine month claimed stalled cycles to people ripping their entire tank apart looking for a source.

Ammonia will not generate from anything other than a massive waste store you kicked up, did ya? If you moving rocks kicked up wastes stored up under, then I could believe it. A waste pile equals ammonia, we should be able to find the source clearly if applicable.

I'd say it's between .25 & .5 but you're right the classic API test result failure lol especially the ammonia test.

 

[brandon429]

And I can still believe it if we see disturbances or recent clouding events that rascal API makes us dig for the mud proof heh

Special and rare pre cleaning or sandbed care would be needed over two years to prevent such buildup. With any directed attention it could be mitigated, and the pics looked clean I thought on initial view

 

[bmay]

Also run carbon. What are the clowns doing?

See what .25 causes



Nobody agrees, ever lol, seen it since 2001 it's a funny thing about reef testing. Google this
API gives false ammonia reading

you'll see things from nine month claimed stalled cycles to people ripping their entire tank apart looking for a source.

Ammonia will not generate from anything other than a massive waste store you kicked up, did ya? If you moving rocks kicked up wastes stored up under, then I could believe it. A waste pile equals ammonia, we should be able to find the source clearly if applicable.

I'd say it's between .25 & .5 but you're right the classic API test result failure lol especially the ammonia test.

Any other suggestions for ammonia testing?

Well at least I'm narrowing down the cause here. The ammonia spike must have been from moving around a few rocks.

How often should I be doing water changes? Ive done about 70% water change in the past few hours. Now I'm out of RO/DI

 

[bmay]

And I can still believe it if we see disturbances or recent clouding events that rascal API makes us dig for the mud proof heh

Special and rare pre cleaning or sandbed care would be needed over two years to prevent such buildup. With any directed attention it could be mitigated, and the pics looked clean I thought on initial view

ITs def clean but it could be cleaner so I'm sure my moving of the LR disturbed quite a bit.

 

[Afakasi831]

Any other suggestions for ammonia testing?

Well at least I'm narrowing down the cause here. The ammonia spike must have been from moving around a few rocks.

How often should I be doing water changes? Ive done about 70% water change in the past few hours. Now I'm out of RO/DI

I'd say twice a week until the parameters are under control. 2nd one might not need to be as big. was that a result after your WC? if so it was probably higher before the change which would definitely be a problem for fish.

 

[melypr1985]

Any other suggestions for ammonia testing?

Well at least I'm narrowing down the cause here. The ammonia spike must have been from moving around a few rocks.

How often should I be doing water changes? Ive done about 70% water change in the past few hours. Now I'm out of RO/DI

Until you stop seeing traces of ammonia. Despite what the level is, ANY amount of ammonia is toxic to fish. You can add a bit of Prime to the tank to neutralize the ammonia for now until you can get more water made. You may not need to do any more water changes, but keep testing for ammonia anyway. Stirring up the sand bed by moving rocks, can certainly cause a mini cycle in some cases. So, your goal here is to keep the ammonia spike as close to 0 as possible until the tank settles back down.

 

[bmay]

I believe so. Water changes are needed and quickly. any amount of ammonia is toxic to fish. You may want to drop some Prime in there to detoxify the ammonia quickly then continue doing water changes until it levels out.

I've done about a 70% water change over the past few hours. And dropped some Prime in there. Hopefully I can get them to come back to life

 

[bmay]

I'd say twice a week until the parameters are under control. 2nd one might not need to be as big. was that a result after your WC? if so it was probably higher before the change which would definitely be a problem for fish.

The fish were fine up until I did a WC and decided to use some epoxy on my LR. Just hoping they come back

 

[brandon429]

Excellent team effort so far for details and options all solid points and takes.

 

[SunnyX]

Were you using epoxy to affix anything to the rock? Was the live rock removed for any period of time. Even moving rock around without taking it our of the tank can release toxins, detritus, and other nasty things which can cause a spike in ammonia. Did you at all smell anything similar to rotten eggs?

Based on past experiences and what I have read on the forums you likely experienced a sudden spike in ammonia. Thankfully your fish are alive. You have added Prime and done a water change so I would make no other changes for now. Carbon and a Polyfilter will help but don't add too much carbon as it will sway the parameters on such a small system. Even something as trivial as moving a few rocks or slightly disturbing the sandbed can have big implications in only 20gl of water.

Here is a link concerning issues with the epoxy product you are using:

http://www.theaquariumsolution.us/aquascape-epoxy-warning-against-incorrect-use

"We recently had a case where 1 pack was used on a 20 lt aquarium with disasterous consequences however this is the equivalent of 7 sticks on a 4ft x 2ft x 2 ft aquarium."

Good luck and please keep us updated.

 

[bmay]

And I can still believe it if we see disturbances or recent clouding events that rascal API makes us dig for the mud proof heh

Special and rare pre cleaning or sandbed care would be needed over two years to prevent such buildup. With any directed attention it could be mitigated, and the pics looked clean I thought on initial view

Until you stop seeing traces of ammonia. Despite what the level is, ANY amount of ammonia is toxic to fish. You can add a bit of Prime to the tank to neutralize the ammonia for now until you can get more water made. You may not need to do any more water changes, but keep testing for ammonia anyway. Stirring up the sand bed by moving rocks, can certainly cause a mini cycle in some cases. So, your goal here is to keep the ammonia spike as close to 0 as possible until the tank settles back down.

I'm happy to say both fish are moving about the tank today. Although not as much as usual but much better then they were yesterday!!!!

Thank you for all the help!

 

[melypr1985]

I'm happy to say both fish are moving about the tank today. Although not as much as usual but much better then they were yesterday!!!!

Thank you for all the help!

Great news!