Please help diagnose: 3 fish heavy breathing and...

[niQo]

The three fish were doing really well, they were eating well and looking healthy. They have been in QT for 2.5 weeks. Dosed PraziPro Monday a week ago and a second dose last Sunday. Yesterday evening it seemed the wrasse was breathing quite rapidly and this morning he is laying on his side on the bottom. No physical symptoms other than heavy breathing, same with the foxface (and he seems to have lost some weight). The Hippo tang has some white spots on his body and is a little white around his face as well. Now the spots are more like smears/discoloration rather than small dots like ich.

The ammonia badge still reads "safe." I immediately put a bag of carbon in and I started researching, but I can't quite find a match for what's on the tang. Should I try to raise copper to therapeutic asap?

 

[HotRocks]

How much surface agitation do you have in your QT.

Prazi weighs heavily on the available oxygen in the tank. I always run a wavemaker right at the surface of the water and the tank looks like a river I have so much movement. An air stone is helpful as well.

The spots on the tang could be secondary to any affliction the fish may have had. Or have you checked for flukes with a FW dip? If flukes were present prior to the dosing of prazi, that could be what the spots are from, they also like to hide and wedge themselves in tight places so that could also be the culprit.

 

[niQo]

How much surface agitation do you have in your QT.

Prazi weighs heavily on the available oxygen in the tank. I always run a wavemaker right at the surface of the water and the tank looks like a river I have so much movement. An air stone is helpful as well.

The spots on the tang could be secondary to any affliction the fish may have had. Or have you checked for flukes with a FW dip? If flukes were present prior to the dosing of prazi, that could be what the spots are from, they also like to hide and wedge themselves in tight places so that could also be the culprit.

Thanks for the response!
I just have an aqua clear in there for movement and filtration. Haven’t had any problems before, although this is only the second time I’ve quarantined. I haven’t checked for flukes and there have not been symptoms that I’ve seen. Other than white stringy poop I saw just once.

 

[HotRocks]

Thanks for the response!
I just have an aqua clear in there for movement and filtration. Haven’t had any problems before, although this is only the second time I’ve quarantined. I haven’t checked for flukes and there have not been symptoms that I’ve seen. Other than white stringy poop I saw just once.

You are welcome. Try adding a small powerhead or wavemaker with heavy surface agitation and see if that perks them up.

 

[Crabs McJones]

You are welcome. Try adding a small powerhead or wavemaker with heavy surface agitation and see if that perks them up.

Agree, did you do a water change before dosing the second round of prazi? The concentration may be to high, and as hotrocks mentioned above prazi greatly reduces the o2 content in your water.

 

[niQo]

Agree, did you do a water change before dosing the second round of prazi? The concentration may be to high, and as hotrocks mentioned above prazi greatly reduces the o2 content in your water.

I did not... I read it’s only active for 72 hours in the water?! Would carbon make a difference? That’s what I put it before leaving for work...

 

[niQo]

I raced home during lunch and found the wrasse dead. The other two fish were still doing okay, perhaps better, but they were being skittish so it was hard to see.

I added a power head near the surface and before I came home I had my wife add some hydrogen peroxide for some quick oxygen.

I would feel terrible if I killed a fish by lack of oxygen... although it is a better scenario compared to velvet. This hobby can be brutal!

 

[niQo]

So it is more than a day since my last update: I'm really doubting that Oxygen was the issue, the fish still weren't doing great last night. They have also been much more skittish than they were before (although that could be caused by the absence of the wrasse who did most of the swimming). I also thought I noticed more white-ish dots (not just discoloration) on the tang, so I decided to ramp up the copper ppm, because it makes the most sense to me if it is Ich or Velvet. It is just so difficult to know when the fish are constantly hiding. I ramped up the copper to 1.97 (Hanna) over 24 hours, that's probably too fast, but I didn't feel like I had much of a choice.

 

[niQo]

And now the Blue Hippo Tang was found dead this morning. Do these pictures confirm ich, velvet or something else? After the pics I rubbed my finger on the spots and they did seem to come off. But if it was sand/detritus I would have expected it to fall off when removing the fish from the water...

@HotRocks @Crabs McJones

Thanks!

4 out of 5 fish from my order are dead now, what a waste and disappointment!

 

[Crabs McJones]

Can you dip the fish in freshwater and see if those small pale spots fall off.
Sorry I missed your earlier posts

 

[niQo]

Can you dip the fish in freshwater and see if those small pale spots fall off.
Sorry I missed your earlier posts

Unfortunately, I am at work right now and the fish is in the garbage. Would there be any point in doing this after 10 hours out of the water? If it was flukes would the prazi not have taken care of it?

 

[Crabs McJones]

Unfortunately, I am at work right now and the fish is in the garbage. Would there be any point in doing this after 10 hours out of the water? If it was flukes would the prazi not have taken care of it?

Depended on the dosage. Let me text @HotRocks and @4FordFamily see if I can get ahold of him to take a look.
I'll also see if I can get @Big G and @ngoodermuth in here to take a look. In my eyes they're the best of the best at fish disease

 

[niQo]

Depended on the dosage. Let me text hotrocks and see if I can get ahold of him to take a look.

Thanks! There is no huge rush as I’ll be at work for another 8 hours, so I can’t do much. I didn’t not notice anything with the foxface. He seemed in decent shape, not breathing as fast as two days ago, no noticeable spots either. But he hides a lot so it’s hard to tell.

 

[HotRocks]

I am not sure what exactly is going on. Mixing the peroxide with prazi could have caused a negative outcome I suppose.

The low oxygen issue could have caused damage enough to the gills that may be the cause.

Flukes generally won't kill a fish quickly. Prazi "should" have taken care of them. There are also strains of flukes that are prazi resistant. Sorry I'm not of much help here. See what others have to say.

 

[4FordFamily]

Freshwater dip a remaining live fish in a dark bucket. Look for sesame seed looking things falling off, that would be flukes.

I think that looks more like multiple issues, perhaps velvet. The spots are mucous, so they can be wiped off. The mucous appears around the insertion points of the parasite.

Sorry you’re having the trouble you are ;(

 

[ScottR]

I know this is a touchy subject but I feel we QT the life out of our fish. We take them from place-to-place and medicate otherwise healthy fish. Imagine flying on an airplane to Italy and then being placed into a hospital and being medicated. IV. Etc. I know we try to avoid parasites but I think we’re going about this all wrong.

In the medical field, it is widely acknowledged that giving out antibiotics to anyone that is sick is helping the bacteria to gain immunity. I feel like we are doing the same to fish. I have been keeping saltwater fish for over 20 years. 20 years ago, I had never ever heard of ich, velvet or any of the such. If a fish died, it was rare. And this was with limited filtration, skimming, test kits, etc.

Please excuse my rant. Just my experience.

 

[4FordFamily]

I know this is a touchy subject but I feel we QT the life out of our fish. We take them from place-to-place and medicate otherwise healthy fish. Imagine flying on an airplane to Italy and then being placed into a hospital and being medicated. IV. Etc. I know we try to avoid parasites but I think we’re going about this all wrong.

In the medical field, it is widely acknowledged that giving out antibiotics to anyone that is sick is helping the bacteria to gain immunity. I feel like we are doing the same to fish. I have been keeping saltwater fish for over 20 years. 20 years ago, I had never ever heard of ich, velvet or any of the such. If a fish died, it was rare. And this was with limited filtration, skimming, test kits, etc.

Please excuse my rant. Just my experience.

15 years ago when I started, I had never heard of velvet or many of today's ailments. I never (or don't think I did) ran in to them. Occasionally ich but it wasn't a huge deal, the condition of fish received were far better, or the parasites were less prevalent. 5 years ago, I wished to keep expert-level and fragile fish, and the general state of the fish I received has declined dramatically YOY, IMO. I was an advocate against QT until then on the same grounds.

 

[ScottR]

I’ve kept fish with ich. I never freaked out. And it went away. In the wild, they live with it. I believe through my experience, that ich (or other parasites) can be dealt with and are a common problem in the wild. Yes, I’ve had fish die from parasites. But it is rare and I believe that a healthy tank is key. I try to keep a tank with a wide variety of life. I think they together help keep everything in check. I don’t dip corals (most are taken from the sea). I have weird things in my tank. But all is ok. Paul B inspired me to pursue this thinking and I have been successful.

 

[Crabs McJones]

Lets please not turn this into a QT or not QT thread and keep on topic to find out whats ailing OP's fish please

 

[niQo]

I am not sure what exactly is going on. Mixing the peroxide with prazi could have caused a negative outcome I suppose.

The low oxygen issue could have caused damage enough to the gills that may be the cause.

Flukes generally won't kill a fish quickly. Prazi "should" have taken care of them. There are also strains of flukes that are prazi resistant. Sorry I'm not of much help here. See what others have to say.

Thanks for the input! I have not noticed any twitching, scratching or head shaking either

Freshwater dip a remaining live fish in a dark bucket. Look for sesame seed looking things falling off, that would be flukes.

I think that looks more like multiple issues, perhaps velvet. The spots are mucous, so they can be wiped off. The mucous appears around the insertion points of the parasite.

Sorry you’re having the trouble you are ;(

I am especially shocked with how fast this is going. These fish were all aggressively eating just a few days ago. I may see how the remaining fish does and give him a freshwater dip and see what that reveals

I know this is a touchy subject but I feel we QT the life out of our fish. We take them from place-to-place and medicate otherwise healthy fish. Imagine flying on an airplane to Italy and then being placed into a hospital and being medicated. IV. Etc. I know we try to avoid parasites but I think we’re going about this all wrong.

In the medical field, it is widely acknowledged that giving out antibiotics to anyone that is sick is helping the bacteria to gain immunity. I feel like we are doing the same to fish. I have been keeping saltwater fish for over 20 years. 20 years ago, I had never ever heard of ich, velvet or any of the such. If a fish died, it was rare. And this was with limited filtration, skimming, test kits, etc.

Please excuse my rant. Just my experience.

I don’t actually disagree with you. But I don’t see how this pertains to my questions. I did not QT for the first four years. Then I lost 5 out of 10 fish after adding some new ones...

Lets please not turn this into a QT or not QT thread and keep on topic to find out whats ailing OP's fish please

Yes, please!