Please Help! Flatworms

beachsidereefer · Mar 30, 2016

Hi Folks,

I'm at my wits end dealing with a Flatworm infestation. they are the tiny brown ones and don't appear to be attacking any of the corals but are all over the glass when the lights come on.

I did some research when they first showed up and it seemed that a lot of people had good results using Salifer eXit flatworm treatment. I attempted to vacuum out as many as possible but this proved to be difficult. I then dosed my 200 gallon DT and 20 gallon sump per the directions. I also turned off the UV and loaded up fresh carbon so when they started to die I could remove the toxins.

The flatworms started to die immediately and after 10 minutes there were none left clinging to the glass and per the directions, I started to run carbon again and turned on the UV. I thought I had conquered the evil flatworms!!!

so long story short I've now completed my fourth treatment! it seems like 3-4 days elapse and the little buggers keep coming back just as strong as before the treatment.

I'm hoping you all can help and tell me what i'm doing wrong or is there another treatment out there that's more effective.

Thanks!

143MPCo · Mar 30, 2016

@twilliard might be able to help with this.

Tahoe61 · Mar 30, 2016

Some flatworm types are capable of using photosynthesis as a means of nutrition. Consider a lights out to see if that is of assistance. You can also try fish types that eat flatworms such as Damsels and Wrasses. Pick the most appropriate fish type related to your tank set up and size. Feed the fish sparingly initially to encourage the fish to eat the flatworms. Continue to remove as many as possible manually. Perhaps a flatworm eating nudibranch would work as well.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=497+524+2198&pcatid=2198

twilliard · Mar 30, 2016

I have found that this common brown flatworm will become resistant to this kind of treatment.
Yes the do have photosynthetic properties. (Can be visible under a scope)
The next best way to help rid of these is with peroxide. This can be tested by taking a cup of the water and adding 5 drops of peroxide. This will show you how they react with the introduction of h2o2.
If at that time you decide you want to rid of them then take 1ml h2o2 per 8 gallons of volume dosed every 24 hours. You can move to every 12 hours as the lifespan is short during the photo period but I do recommend to watch for tank reactions during the first dose in a 24 hour period.
You should be able to blow them around easily as that dose will not kill them more sedate them.
From there skimming and clean filter socks will catch them.
The 24 hour dose is best dosed at night as soon as lights are off.
Watch your low flow areas as they tend to accumulate there.

beachsidereefer · Mar 30, 2016

thanks for the tips. So the eXit treatment simply not killing them all so they continue to reproduce? how long is their lifecycle?

twilliard · Mar 30, 2016

beachsidereefer said:
thanks for the tips. So the eXit treatment simply not killing them all so they continue to reproduce? how long is their lifecycle?

No over time it will not kill them. They are quite adaptive
Lifespan is quite long and reproduction is quick.
I have a saying for these guys, if you see 1 there are 100 more. Just can't see them

beachsidereefer · Mar 30, 2016

twilliard said:
I have found that this common brown flatworm will become resistant to this kind of treatment.
Yes the do have photosynthetic properties. (Can be visible under a scope)
The next best way to help rid of these is with peroxide. This can be tested by taking a cup of the water and adding 5 drops of peroxide. This will show you how they react with the introduction of h2o2.
If at that time you decide you want to rid of them then take 1ml h2o2 per 8 gallons of volume dosed every 24 hours. You can move to every 12 hours as the lifespan is short during the photo period but I do recommend to watch for tank reactions during the first dose in a 24 hour period.
You should be able to blow them around easily as that dose will not kill them more sedate them.
From there skimming and clean filter socks will catch them.
The 24 hour dose is best dosed at night as soon as lights are off.
Watch your low flow areas as they tend to accumulate there.

thanks, do I need to suspend carbon and UV filtration during the dose time? what about GFO?

twilliard · Mar 30, 2016

No there is no need to change anything with equipment or media

Wilsoni · Mar 30, 2016

twilliard said:
I have found that this common brown flatworm will become resistant to this kind of treatment.
Yes the do have photosynthetic properties. (Can be visible under a scope)
The next best way to help rid of these is with peroxide. This can be tested by taking a cup of the water and adding 5 drops of peroxide. This will show you how they react with the introduction of h2o2.
If at that time you decide you want to rid of them then take 1ml h2o2 per 8 gallons of volume dosed every 24 hours. You can move to every 12 hours as the lifespan is short during the photo period but I do recommend to watch for tank reactions during the first dose in a 24 hour period.
You should be able to blow them around easily as that dose will not kill them more sedate them.
From there skimming and clean filter socks will catch them.
The 24 hour dose is best dosed at night as soon as lights are off.
Watch your low flow areas as they tend to accumulate there.

@twilliard out of curiosity, based on this peroxide dosage, how much will this effect your Phosphate levels? Also which peroxide % would you be using?

twilliard · Mar 30, 2016

There is no direct interaction with po4
Standard 3% peroxide
This is why I love to work with this. It adds O2 to the water at the same time helping to stop common problems.
Even after a 24 hour exposure the microbes are unharmed and free swimming.
This is observed at .1ml per 100ml of tank water (almost 4 times the standard dose)

beachsidereefer · Mar 30, 2016

twilliard said:
There is no direct interaction with po4
Standard 3% peroxide
This is why I love to work with this. It adds O2 to the water at the same time helping to stop common problems.
Even after a 24 hour exposure the microbes are unharmed and free swimming.
This is observed at .1ml per 100ml of tank water (almost 4 times the standard dose)

is there any additional benefit to combining this treatment with dose of eXit on the first day of treatment since they will be stunned?

twilliard · Mar 30, 2016

No..
They have been through so many rounds it won't touch them

beachsidereefer · Mar 31, 2016

twilliard said:
No..
They have been through so many rounds it won't touch them

thanks, so I'm going to start dosing tonight. Just to make sure I'm clear I'm going to do the following, please let me know if there's any flaws to my process.

Tonight - after lights turn off
my total water volume is ~220 gallons so I'm going to dose 27.5 ML of 3% hydrogen peroxide.
Next Morning - vacuum out flat worms that collected in dead spots of the tank and clean out the filter sock.

Day 2 - after lights off
second dose of 27.5 ML of hydrogen peroxide.
Next Morning - vacuum out flat worms that collected in dead spots of the tank and clean out the filter sock.

Day 3 - 20% water volume change to remove any built up toxins from dead flat worms. carbon canister refreshed.

After my water change on day 3 should I do another dose of hydrogen peroxide after lights out?

twilliard · Mar 31, 2016

Yes that plan looks good. Also keep in mind that this dose will not kill them just sedate and they will flow around in the water column getting trapped in the filter sock.
After 2 hours of the dose take a powerhead and blow them off of the rockwork and substrate as they will not have a good hold
Watch the sump low flow areas also.

twilliard · Mar 31, 2016

beachsidereefer said:
After my water change on day 3 should I do another dose of hydrogen peroxide after lights out

You can do a follow up dose if desired.
Watch the tank closely and observe the sump

Endoz · Mar 31, 2016

If you can find a fish that eats them, you're golden. I have a blue damsel that completely eradicated my tank of these little buggers. Six dollar fix.

twilliard · Mar 31, 2016

Endoz said:
If you can find a fish that eats them, you're golden. I have a blue damsel that completely eradicated my tank of these little buggers. Six dollar fix.

What about the flatworm in the sump?

Endoz · Mar 31, 2016

twilliard said:
What about the flatworm in the sump?

Good point, but peroxide, Flatworm Exit, etc. will not only not eliminate them from the DT, but they will still be in the sump as well. There is no way to "stun" them, siphon them out, or hope that they get removed by your filter sock. Without a predator, you will be fighting an endless battle. Let's be honest, planaria flatworms are really just a cosmetic problem. There is no proof that they cause any real damage to anything in the system unless they get to plague proportions and start to compete with the good things in the tank. As hobbyists, we spend an inordinate amount of time wringing our hands about flatworms and how to get rid of them. I've done it as well--I went so far as to break down my whole reef and start over because I found planaria in my system. The reality is that they really aren't a big deal. Get a predator and you're done. "Out of sight, out of mind" is really the name of the game when it comes to planaria. Now, AEFW and some other pests are a totally different story...

twilliard · Mar 31, 2016

Endoz said:
Good point, but peroxide, Flatworm Exit, etc. will not only not eliminate them from the DT, but they will still be in the sump as well. There is no way to "stun" them, siphon them out, or hope that they get removed by your filter sock. Without a predator, you will be fighting an endless battle. Let's be honest, planaria flatworms are really just a cosmetic problem. There is no proof that they cause any real damage to anything in the system unless they get to plague proportions and start to compete with the good things in the tank. As hobbyists, we spend an inordinate amount of time wringing our hands about flatworms and how to get rid of them. I've done it as well--I went so far as to break down my whole reef and start over because I found planaria in my system. The reality is that they really aren't a big deal. Get a predator and you're done. "Out of sight, out of mind" is really the name of the game when it comes to planaria. Now, AEFW and some other pests are a totally different story...

No way to stun them??
Planaria is easily removable

Endoz · Mar 31, 2016

twilliard said:
No way to stun them??
Planaria is easily removable

Yes, there is a way to stun them. Yes, they are easy to siphon out. But there is no way for you to stun and siphon every single one of them out. If you miss even one, you are back to square one.