Please help me design a self sustaining reef system

[JakeK]

I have seen responses along the lines of buy a TV and a copy of a reef DVD as an answer to similar questions on other forums.

I recognize that this is quite a challenge. My goal is to have a system that can maintain itself for a month on its own and have it operating on its own within 9 months. I have been reading about other attempts to do this but am new to the hobby so I fail to understand a lot of the nomenclature and lack the basic principles on a lot of topics.

Our current 65 gallon tank setup is described in this thread https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/seven-week-old-reef-tank-lots-of-growth-calcium-at-260-ppm.214097/

The goal is to have a lot of coral and minimal fish.

Our display setup needs to fit into a 52" wide by 9' tall area of our kitchen. A basement storage area is located below the display tank. I have a channel to run plumbing and wiring between the two. I also have access to the floor trusses to support them. One end of the tank will be on a 2x8 load bearing wall. I can support the other end if needed. I have access to water and drainage in the basement. I could easily store hundreds of gallons of water in the basement. The basement is not heated and drops as low as 60F during the winter so I would need to heat any sump in this location.

The largest 48" tank that I have found is 150 gallons. That tank is 48" wide by 24" thick by 30" high. I am uncertain if the height may be an issue for water quality.

I would like to keep the setup as simple as possible. Perhaps using one or more refugiums and a mangrove to filter the water. If the sump were two to three times the size of the display tank I assume that would reduce the amount of dosing and frequency of water changes needed. If I need more surface area for air exchange I can build shelves with trays for the water to run through.

If I do need to dose some number of chemicals to reduce maintenance I am happy to automate that.

How can I eliminate the need for a protein skimmer? The need to empty the protein skimmer makes it difficult to be away.

I would like to have a strong population of copepods and ampipods to help with feeding the coral and fish. Perhaps some edible macroalgae was well.

I very much appreciate your advice.

This is an interesting concept. I would like to know why you want to go this route.

As far as hobbies go, this one is fairly hands-on. For the amount of money you will spend automating a system to the degree you want, you could pay people to do all the maintenance for you and you still get to enjoy the end result.

 

[BruceW]

This is an interesting concept. I would like to know why you want to go this route.

We love having a reef tank in our home. But we also like to travel and see real reefs. Therefore the tank at home needs to be able to take care of itself while we are away.

 

[250mixreef]

I like your idea on filtration. A low tide pool type of area may work well in place of a skimmer. Man made ponds often use this type of natural filtration. However an rodi unit with only a float valve to control it can be a recipe for disaster. What if the float valve fails? There's no way to turn it off if your away. my auto top off only holds enough water to fill my sump in the event of a malfunction. You need to have fail safes in place

 

[bobman]

Also you might want to reconsider the way you have the refugium plumbed. Your picture shows plumbing in the bottom to the container. If the power was to shut off it would empty the container. Could just be the was you drew it but figured I would add it in case you overlooked it.

 

[250mixreef]

Perhaps the shelves should be along side the sump with an overflow so only the top inch or so would drain when the main pump is turned off

 

[Paul B]

That looks fairly complicated to me, but it should work. I am not exactly sure what exactly you are trying to accomplish. I think the fish feeding on the plants and amphipods may be a little ambitious, but I look forward to seeing this system working.

 

[BruceW]

However an rodi unit with only a float valve to control it can be a recipe for disaster. What if the float valve fails?

Good point and certainly one that needs to be addressed. I see a few possible options;

1. Use an ATO system that handles this possibility.
2. Use multiple float switches and only fill if all show the need for water.
3. Have a high level float switch that stops the water flow when it is reached.

I need a water valve ahead of the RO/DI that is activated by the float switches or ATO so that waste water is not being produced all the time.

I am thinking that I would use a sprinkler system valve to control flow to the RO/DI then use perhaps four float switches in series. Two would be fill level switches and two would be overfill sensors. The fill level switches would be normally open and the overfill switches would be normally closed. I would like use different technologies for each. For example one physical float and one electric moisture sensor at each level.

The output of these switches could be fed to a Raspberry Pi that also considered salinity levels. In the event of a rising salinity level the Pi could override the switches and add a calculated amount of water.

 

[250mixreef]

Now your thinking

 

[BruceW]

Perhaps the shelves should be along side the sump with an overflow so only the top inch or so would drain when the main pump is turned off

Good point, the return needs to be sufficiently elevated to avoid the possibility of it draining below a certain level.

 

[BruceW]

That looks fairly complicated to me, but it should work. I am not exactly sure what exactly you are trying to accomplish. I think the fish feeding on the plants and amphipods may be a little ambitious, but I look forward to seeing this system working.

My goal is to build a tank ecosystem that could go a month without human interaction. Most of the time it would have daily attention and we would feed the fish. But we would want to be able to travel during for perhaps two one week and one four week periods of the year. Like you, we need to go harvest some rock to bring back.

Automated feeding systems or the feed blocks may be the away time feeding solution but I like the idea of making more natural food available.

 

[Paul B]

I know my tank can go a month or more without me except for the feeding and that is only because of certain fish like a copperband butterfly. Most of my other fish will live for a time on dried foods that I could put in a feeder. I never feed that, but while I am away, I would. I designed a hatchery and feeder for the mandarins that would last a week but that's about it. After that, they are on their own looking for pods (or take out).
I don't worry about dosing and I do have an ATO. It's mainly the live food that I would like to feed every day that prevents me from traveling for more than about 10 days.

 

[Latino277]

Good point and certainly one that needs to be addressed. I see a few possible options;

1. Use an ATO system that handles this possibility.
2. Use multiple float switches and only fill if all show the need for water.
3. Have a high level float switch that stops the water flow when it is reached.

I need a water valve ahead of the RO/DI that is activated by the float switches or ATO so that waste water is not being produced all the time.

I am thinking that I would use a sprinkler system valve to control flow to the RO/DI then use perhaps four float switches in series. Two would be fill level switches and two would be overfill sensors. The fill level switches would be normally open and the overfill switches would be normally closed. I would like use different technologies for each. For example one physical float and one electric moisture sensor at each level.

The output of these switches could be fed to a Raspberry Pi that also considered salinity levels. In the event of a rising salinity level the Pi could override the switches and add a calculated amount of water.

there is a good vid on BRS about this type of setup. I'll see if I can find it.

 

[Latino277]

I think this is it.

 

[Kungpaoshizi]

This guy designed a reef tank that only required annual maintenance in the early 90s. He ran it for 8 years. http://www.theokaa.org/articles/zero.pdf

Now that's a pretty awesome write-up.
I've always wondered about the pyramid element blocks nobody buys at the LFS. Like the above writing I'm sure hard corals would be out of the picture, but I've wondered if you could either bury or enclose in a box with a hole, 1 block or more, and the diameter of the hole would dictate the amount of the elements leached into the main water loop over time.
It's definitely at times a tedious task keeping a reef tank, sometimes the tank can be an unexpected daily chore.

 

[brandon429]

I read that skeptically and left believing that did occur it was reasonable. Really good for the days time that's a long while ago w no web resources to help in planing. They tried to balance predictable primary producers with fish counterparts that's well done and a neat pioneer write up to link